Bi Polar v's (or inc) Aspergers for women - Co Morbidities

This podcast from ABC is very interesting -

Girls and autism on All in the Mind

with Lynne Malcolm on RN

Hi @MoonGal,

I haven't listened to the podcast but have read about Aspergers and am aware of it through having a foster relative diagnosed (and, of course, various cultural depictions). I have at times suspected I have Aspergers traits, and others have thought I might be on the spectrum, but no psychiatrist I've seen over 25 years has ever suggested it. I'm not sure how helpful it would be to be labelled this way in terms of treatment options, haven't done enough research on that. I'm also wary of self-diagnosis, though I suspected I was bipolar before I was diagnosed in 2008.

That's about all I have on it but just wanted to give you a reply since it is something that has come up a number of times over my life. I'm interested to hear more about what you discover.

Hi @MoonGal it is indeed possible to receive an assessment for Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) in adulthood. The way to go about this would be getting a referral to see a psychologist and/or psychiatrist who is experienced in the assessment and diagnosis of ASD. During the assessment phase, they will most likely ask a lot of questions about your childhood, your various experiences at home and at school, and in adulthood. They would most likely do some psychological or psychiatric testing. A speech pathologist is also generally consulted to assess social communication skills. The assessment process is quite thorough and comprehensive so as to rule out other potential issues that might also potentially explain the symptoms you have noticed. The culmination of this information that is gathered can lead to a diagnosis, or at least provide some further insight into potential alternative explainations. Autism that falls on the lower end of the spectrum, (e.g., aspergers) can be difficult to pick up, and many people find they can get on in the world just fine without receiving a formal diagnosis. For some people, receiving a diagnosis can be really difficult, while for others it can bring a sense of relief. In making the decision to look into ASD further, it can be helpful to muse on what receiving a formal diagnosis would mean for you. Do you feel like receiving this diagnosis would be upsetting or overwhelming for you? Or would it bring a sense of relief knowing that you had a clearer explaination for your experiences throughout life?

Look forward to hearing more about your story.

All the best, Mosaic.

@Former-Member - thank you - perfect response. I think if it did return with an Asperger's diagnoses it would provide a sense of relief, as did getting a formal diagnoses of Bi Polar II (plus a gaggle of co-morbidity's). I had actively resisted diagnoses and avoided psychiatrists despite my doctors prompts for many years because 'control' is very important to me and I was concerned that once under "care" and diagnosed I would mainstream and be labelled affecting work chances etc. I was chucked about the room somewhat for a few days after that diagnoses, my partner rightly pointed out -"this doesn't change you -you are just as you have always been".)

In reading the new info on how girls with Asperger's (or Autism) present and experience the world (which is very different to boys/men) I was blown away by the similarities with my childhood and current life, very, very strong ID indeed. ALso that this being a spectrum disorder and each person presents differently, I do not have social communication skills problems (when I am well though) I am articulate and erudite (in the extreme!). I do have a lot of difficulty describing my emotional states, and will freeze up if asked to describe myself. Although now I have done a heap of CBT type psych counselling have got better at that and keeping a mood diary has also helped id my states" give me a spreadsheet over a 'chat' about it anytime.

In the reading and online tests I have done I return well within the Asperger's margin. It explains a lot more about me as a child, where as the Bi Polar type "symptoms" kicked in at around my 20's particualalry I thin post-illicit drug use.

Mosaic - do you know about Neurotransmitter levels testing? Is this a tool used for assessment and if it is, as I am on two types of meds that affect neurotransmitter testing would i need to come off these (under supervision of course) for an accurate report?

Anyways - bottom line it has ALWAYS been hard being me.

Ah, I seem to have stumbled into some kind of unspoken area on the Sane Forums... and that Sane itself has no information about Austism Spectrum & co morbitities in regards mental health diagnoses on the main website. Surely it is an area that has huge impacts on mental health and mental health diagnoses?

I have hit up against the prevailing attitudes in mental health care here I think. I appreciate the answer Mosaic gave, and wonder how many of us are slipping under the radar because of a bias in the system?

Those of us who are now in our middle to older ages - may well have been diplaying these Autism Spectrum indicators for our entire childhoods but were never diagnosed (and untreated) through the subtely of our syptoms or the lack of knowledge of our families and the medical systems in the 1960's, 1970's etc.

Perhaps it is time to remedy the lack of info on the main SANE website and at least point to some relevant well researched information for those of us who are active in our pursuit of knowledge about our own conditions?

It's hard to get meaningful information about comorbidities. For example, anxiety and depression would be comorbid for just about all chronic health conditions. I'm painting with my broad brush here and speaking from the podium of my Weetbix diploma of psychology... But the USA's National Institute of Mental Health agrees with me: people with other chronic medical conditions have a higher risk of depression. In some cases, simply knowing that you've got such-and-such, now you're at risk for X, Y, Z, Q, I, O, P, might lead someone into a sense of futility and overwhelm them. It might also be more complicated than we thought - in that the correlation has been found, but the mechanism hasn't yet, or the proposed mechanism is disputed.

Stuff that 'might be autism' might also be symptomatic of other conditions, too - ADHD, or anxiety or depression. Because I understand that it's a very individual thing, the borders might be fuzzy between high-functioning autism or aspergers (no idea what the correct term is here...) and other conditions, even for experts.

The data itself might or might not be out there. It might be dated, only for child populations, behind a paywall, etc. etc. etc. Possibly, with disability activism, it might be unfashionable. Perhaps searching the websites of autism groups might be useful?

@CannonSalt - thanks for the balanced voice - I need to be careful to not over identify with ANY specific diagnoses, so easy to find the pattern and slip in saying YES that's me.

I think I am on the AS spectrum somewhere - as the childood info for Aspie girls ticked so MANY boxes for me. As to whether I need to get a diagnoses v's just learn more on my own - is what I am tossing around. All of it whether mental health or nuerological differences - is affected by nuerochemisty (both biological and pharmaceutical).

Certainly whatever is my main problems physical and mental/emotional what I eat has a huge impact and I have noticed in just a week of changing my diet from high carb - to high plant-based protiens and veggies that my head is less foggy and my motivation has risen and my skin looks clearer and inflammed joints are not as sore. I have a wealth of immune and imflammation and bowel and gut issues too - so whatever the 'diagnoses' eating good fresh, rich in minerals and anti oxidants that are great pre-biotic foods has to be better for me...

One thing you might like to do while you're pondering is check out your local library system for books on autism and women, aspergers and women and ADHD and women. I'm suggesting ADHD as well because that's often 'the other thing it could be' when investigating a possible diagnosis of being on the autism spectrum. (Weetbix diploma here...) I've done a couple of searches on Trove that you can click on to get started: Trove is a big library catalogue which covers all libraries in Australia.

• aspergers and women
• autism and women
• ADHD and women

You should be able to find some biographies, medical texts for a general audience (as in - 'I'm a teacher, and one of my new kids this year has autism, what does that mean?'), and life skills guides. Some of them might be dodgy, but some of them might be interesting or useful. Searching in your own library's catalogue would give you better results.

I'm glad to hear that switching up your diet is giving you more energy. 🙂

Hi @MoonGal I think i have mentioned before that I self identify as an aspie. I have a girlfriend who works in disability who had an adult diagnosis and is glad that she has.

As for myself, I have signed up to receive the AMAZE newsletter. They faciliate adult diagnoses .. eg have a list of professionals. Maybe I will get around to it ... today for the first time I was put on a health care plan ... it has taken long enough to get to this stage where I dont have to pay out huge amounts for Osteo and Physio.

I am not in a hurry ... as like you .. I am still me ... with or without labels. .. and I have a tendency to try and find out what is wrong with me ... as I feel like such a reject.

I have gone through a lot of who -ha about it when my son was diagnosed with aspergers about 10 years ago. Did a lot of research.

it is not an intellectual disability @Peter_Pan78 it is seen more as a developmental disorder ... ie it usually becomes evident during childhood or adolescence.

Yes @MoonGal I think we are touching on a delicate area .. back to my SPECTRUM idea ... not just the childhood autism ratio spectrum (CARS) ... but spectrums of all behaviours, traits and what is deemed normal or pathological.

I also have little alarm bell dings ... as some of the issues of women and aspergers may relate to gender roles and perceptions of social appropriateness ... and how that has changed over time ... eg not that long ago in the history of the human race ... women werent seen as able to cope with math or science ... and now they are ... without being thought of as a show off or little professor,

I have settled for being a nutty Nancy and a batty Betty but no-one wants to take responsibility for locking me up ..