Ruth Clare from the veteran family webinar - I'm here to chat with you!

It's so fantastic to have you here @Ruth_Clare!

I just wanted to pop by and leave this link so those who weren't able to make the webinar can watch the recording

Thanks so much @Ru-bee!

Watching your webinar @Ruth_Clare

loving your passionate, integrated up to date discussion.

yes, I have researched….

vulnerability

ACE

PTSD

and Complex PTSD

thanks

my father strongly identified as a Navy man, and helped in the clearing of the Coral Sea. However, his schizophrenia diagnosis was made more of. He also had substantial ACE of his own. I don’t remember him being explosive, he wasn’t like that, but he did clash with authorities when we were made state wards. He wasn’t well enough to provide properly, but I still felt loved and not afraid of him. Later after I left orphanages he showed me around Garden Island a lot, so I appreciated his identity as an ex military man.

I have mainly survived by going back to basics. Yes, even to volunteering at the zoo and watching and learning about essential mammalian responses.

I love your edginess and straight talking

Hi @Ruth_Clare,

Thank you so much for your EPIC webinar last night! There were some questions that didn't get answered from our Q&A section and the chat, which I thought I'd post here.

1. I am separated nearly 2 years, and there's still a lot of trauma that I deal with. I walked on egg shells, endured violence and had to deal with my partners anxiety and deep depression until I could no longer stay with them. I am finally seeing a new me come to the surface where I can finally express myself and I am excited but also very cautions and still withdraw to isolation. My question is why do I still have the gut wrenching feeling that I abandoned him? What ways can I overcome this and find that confidence not only for myself but for my child as well?
2. I have four generations of active military service and PTSD in my family, and I often wonder what the effects are on subsequent generations.
3. Do you have statistics on chronic pain, chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia in children of veterans?
4. Do you think neurodiversity (namely ADHD) has anything to do with the way you were raised; childhood experiences and trauma? I'd love to hear your thoughts about neurodivergence in military families.
5. Could you please comment on healthcare providers' skills and knowledge (their health literacy level) when consulting with veterans or their family members?

6. I quite often feel lonely due to all the regular moving around and don’t always connect with people well. Do you think it’s just a mindset, as we know we won’t be there for long, so what’s the point?

Really looking forward to your responses! ❤️

Hi @Appleblossom

I am so glad to hear that you felt loved and not afraid of your dad, but I am very sorry to know you were made state wards, and that both you and your dad lived through so many ACEs. 🧡

Like your Dad, I would clash with authorities too if they tried to take my kids from me, but it sounds like you felt it was probably an unfortunate necessity in this instance? Sounds like you got to re-build your relationship with your dad after you left the orphanage which is very heartwarming to hear.

I think that is one of my biggest sources of grief, that my Dad died so young we never got to reach a new stage of our relationship. It always makes my heart feel hopeful to know that others have developed strong relationships with their parents despite the hardships they faced.

And I love that you went to the zoo and watched the mammals. Nothing warms the cockles of my heart quicker than watching animals 🧡

I really appreciate you getting in touch and sharing your story. I think the more we can understand the myriad of dynamics that exist in veteran families the better we can support them. Very best to you.

In response to the question:

I have four generations of active military service and PTSD in my family, and I often wonder what the effects are on subsequent generations.

Not sure if you feel comfortable expanding more on your family’s experience, but I have some questions.

In what way did your family members' PTSD express itself?
If a parent has a significant unmanaged mental illness such as a PTSD, we know that is considered an adverse childhood experience (ACE) for their children. How many other ACEs (e.g. physical abuse, psychological abuse, witnessing domestic violence, physical or psychological neglect etc.) did each generation of children in your family experience?
Does your family also include people who are neurodivergent?

If nobody from future generations participated in military service, it would be really interesting to explore what legacy would remain. If you have time, it would be great to learn more or to hear your thoughts or reflections on this!

In answer to the question:

Do you have statistics on chronic pain, chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia in children of veterans?

Unfortunately, there is a real lack of research into children of veterans. We are barely even considered a distinct group in our own right and so the impact of military service on us as a population is largely unknown and unrecognised. As a result, the specific issues many of us experience (and how common these are, the mechanisms by which they are produced etc.) are poorly understood.

What is known is that a significant number of children of veterans develop complex PTSD (c-PTSD) from their childhood experiences. What is also known is that c- PTSD is frequently associated with chronic pain, chronic fatigue, and fibromyalgia. Why this happens is not fully understood. One hypothesis is that the body’s prolonged stress responses related to significant and ongoing trauma impacts the way your brain modulates both pain and emotions. But again, this is only a theory.

I would be really interested to know how many children of veterans experience chronic pain, chronic fatigue, and fibromyalgia and if the rates we experience these conditions are different to the general population. If there are any academics out there looking for a research topic, this would make an interesting topic for further exploration!

In answer to the question:

Do you think neurodiversity (namely ADHD) has anything to do with the way you were raised; childhood experiences and trauma? I'd love to hear your thoughts about neurodivergence in military families.

I answered a similar question elsewhere so will repeat some of that information here...

My understanding is that ADHD is a genetic neurobiological developmental disorder so I came pre-loaded with an ADHD-style brain. I think my mum possibly had inattentive ADHD and maybe autism? My Dad possibly had hyperactive ADHD, though it is hard to tell because his trauma was so significant and there are so many overlaps in trauma and neurodivergence symptoms. I know Dad was super smart but didn’t like school, hated authority, was incredibly impatient, hated waiting in any sort of line and didn’t suffer fools in any domain, which all seem like ADHD things, and are all things I relate to, but really, who knows? I am really only making an educated guess.

I think it is likely that I got neurodivergent genes from my parents and my dad (and mum’s) trauma experiences epigenetically turned my ADHD genes on more fully so they expressed themselves more.

The symptoms of my ADHD– hyperactivity, distractibility, poor concentration, racing thoughts and emotional reactivity – were made worse by growing up in a chaotic and unpredictable environment that also necessitated me living permanently in survival mode, with a body that was constantly flooded with cortisol and adrenaline.

I was only recently diagnosed with ADHD, so for a long time I attributed all my behaviour to trauma. Big emotional responses? Impact of trauma. Constantly losing things? Dissociation due to trauma. Inability to filter out stimuli and hypersensitivity to noise? Hypervigilance due to trauma.

It was such a relief to discover that my brain was also wired differently, so a lot of things I saw as “damage” were actually in-built parts of the way my brain worked. I was then able to support myself in a different, more neurodivergent-friendly way.

I do think we need to do a lot more research into the links between trauma and neurodivergence. I also think we need to do more research into the prevalence of neurodivergence in military populations. A lot of veterans and veteran children I know are also neurodivergent yet this is not something that I ever see discussed? I recently posted about this on social media, and lots of people commented that the armed forces is full of people with autism and ADHD.

Also, I think it is really interesting to explore the way many neurodivergent traits make us ideal candidates for military service – either liking structure and routine or enjoying variety and being excellent in high stress and crisis situations. (This fits into that idea of ADHD people being hunter/ gatherer types who are excellent at adaptability, quick thinking, and a focus on the immediate as opposed to farmer types who are naturally better at repetitive tasks, long-term thinking, planning etc. This is only a theory of course, but an interesting one.)

I do think that if organisations such as defence are going to benefit from our neurodivergent awesomeness they should acknowledge it. I also think this needs to be better understood because if you are trying to treat trauma without also supporting underlying neurodivergence, treatment isn’t going to be as effective.

I love the care and detail with which you responded to my and others posts. @Ruth_Clare

My father died young also, of pneumonia (at 45). I was 11. So my healing in our relationship was mainly done with his spirit, not in person. I went fishing for good memories, among a lot of neglect, poverty, over responsibility and overwork. It was obvious, the issues in our family were critical, and about life and death hard realities. No point hating a ghost. One just got on with things. It was not til much older, that I had any yardstick of generalisations regarding so called normal. Did I idealise my father. Probably not. In my ward file I am quoted as saying he was “eccentric but we love him”. I know I didn’t really know that word til later, til I encountered it in a spelling test in grade 6. Blooming social workers probably putting words in my mouth. I reread my sister’s file yesterday! In hindsight, I would say, that if his war service had been given due respect, he may have survived, but it was not to be. His war PTSD, would have triggered his earlier CPTSD. That is my current well researched opinion. I also have his coroner’s report. My father always seemed socially relevant, relaxed and appropriate. I I now believe the schizophrenia diagnosis, was cultural misunderstanding, just a way of blaming and dismissing people. Possibly rooted in the old Protestant/ Catholic divisions. One of my last memories was seeing him talking to guys on a verandah at Heidelberg Repatriation hospital. It was normal and respectful and they told him to apply for an Invalid pension, but he died within a couple weeks. Most likely partly to do with over medication. Side effects often depress respiratory function. However that was not in his coroner’s report. Hmmm. I was only 11 and not invited to attend the court, but have sat in a medical library….since.

Personally, I have been curious about genetics since I did biology at school. I also can identify as neurodivergent, but I lean more aspie. I suspect all my early trauma, and work, knocked around the free floating energy often seen in many personalities. I also take diagnosis and labels with a hefty dose of pink Himalayan salt, as I have hung around sciencey types a long time, and not sure that they know as much as they pretend…!?

Just back from a lunch where I chatted to a couple veterans. At least we can find things to connect on, now.

https://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq_XfDIzngw www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq_XfDIzngw

This guy mentions PTSD and veterans.

@Ruth_Clare @0ddsidian @Ru-bee @tyme