simultaneously coping and struggling

Hi @demdeadendfeels

I have BPD not bipolar but I can relate to some of the things your saying.

With the dentist I had a bad experience when I was 16 and it took me 15 years to see to my wisdom teeth and I went through much more pain and anguish for doing that but because I had so many visits and often pain filled I am now not scared anymore, sometimes when I go for a check up or a filling I nearly nap in the chair now but I have to be honest the thought of aroot canal freaks me out but its just because I havent had one - so scared of new things too. I also have GAD anxiety so often feel scared of new things but then I worked for a company where the owner was a woman and believed in her employees growing personally so I was set a lot of challenges, going interstate by myself many times when I have never been on a plane bymyself or a new city, giving presentations to employees interestate and doing a TAFE course where I had to give speeches and mind you I have a slight stutter as well so all this was very big for me but I dont them and felt so much better for doing it and it gave me some confidence that now I will try new things.

I too have had a lot of relationship issues so can relate there and my partner is bipolar aswell. I have also worked in bad companies where bullying exists infact where I am now it does but I cant do anything as its from the owners. I constantly struggle but cope to some extent at the same time.

I dont know how I do this but I always just keep putting one foot in front of the other try not to think about anxieties too much and just do, I think it is almost robot behaviour now. Part of it is that I'm scared if I stop I wont get up again to speak so that fear keep me going. My mind is also racing constantly so can definitely relate to that.

I just wanted you to know you are not alone and even though I dont have bipolar I understand completely. With the suicidal thoughts I was getting many and then they upped the dosage of my anxiety meds and despite going through a terrible time the last few days I havent had these thoughts so not sure if meds is the cause. I have been trying "emotional discipline" which I have put in another thread in the "look after our wellbeing" section and that has been working for me too.

I think when you have a MI like ours that consumes everything it is a struggle whether we like it or not and there is no magic pill, I have learnt through experience that it is only ourselves that can help which I know is really hard but we need to rely on our strengths to get through and from what you have said you sound like a very strong person who doesnt give up easily!

Please keep posting I'm sure someone with bipolar will get back to you soon and the venting is a good thing as well!

thanks @Change123 for replying, it really helps knowing other people are going through the same sort of stuff and are dealing with it. Sometimes I really need the proof that people are doing it.

The problem is it's not so much the pain with me (financial pain from the bill maybe lol) it's more that the smell (I think) reminds me of all the surgeries I've had and the anaesthesia they've put me on - I don't know what it is, but me and anaesthesia don't seem to mix (in the mental sense anyway) and they normally end up having to sedate me as well.

Wow. I'd be pretty chuffed with myself if I was you, all this stuff you've overcome!

That's what I've been trying to do lately, but even then it's a daily mental battle to not just go back to bed because I convince myself everyday is just like those before. I have been reading a few books and articles about it lately which is kind of helping, my main struggle is just turning off that stupid voice in my head that has to argue every damn action/decision I have to make.

I'll check out the other thread, thank you.

Yeah unfortunately my previous psychologist said I'm very resilient. I wouldn't go that far, I'm just very stubborn, pig-headed and a sucker for punishment haha. Not sure if it's a curse or a blessing sometimes.

Thanks 🙂

Hi @demdeadendfeels,

You've got a big load to carry with a study and caring for your child. To add to that, having a MI isn't easy. From what you've written, I think you've had to deal with some pretty challenging and unfair circumstances with your work. It's no wonder why you're anxious.

To answer your question, is it usual for people with bipolar to have racing thoughts, and no energy and motivation? This is a bit tricky to answer as two people can have the same diagnosis and have completely different symptoms. Either way, what you're experiencing sounds stressful. It's good to see that you are ventng on not holding on to these feelings.

You may want to connect with @MoonGal. I believe that she has bipolar, and she has written about it here. Also, here's a link @Change123's thread. Also @Silenus has bipolar, he uses writing as a form of therapy. Perhaps they can share some thought here? @Silenus and @MoonGal can you relate to having racing thoughts, and low energy? Any tips on how to manage?

CB

Heya @demdeadendfeels, glad to meet you and so good to get all of that out.

I live with Bipolar II and a few of co-morbidities thrown into the mix - cPTSD and OCD and core anxiety - you know... all the warning labels! I am on an anti-psychotic (bad name for it) and an anti-D but do not tolerate mood stabilisers so I swing about like a flag in the wind.

You said "... mind racing, constantly jumping between thoughts and ideas, but no energy/motivation/desire to actually action these things?"

Since I received my diagnosis in 2014 (I lived with it all until i was 53 without a diagnosis or treatment) I have much more insight into my various states. Sometimes whilst IN them, but mostly just afterwards or as I am coming out of them.

What you described feeling is something I also experience and am aware of being in them - I know them as Mixed States. I call them the Dry Awfuls. The high anxiety, thoughts racing and no energy or motivation to act.It is a particularly awful state to be in, and like you I do not experience suicidal ideation when in that state. (Those thoughts come more when I am depressed or in an extremis of anxiety.) A Mixed State is not depression or mania - it is it's own beast. And I have not found anything that deals with it better than doubling down on my medication and zoning out for the duration. This robs me of creativity and spark but shuts up the rapidity of thought and anxiety and I can get on with my day, albeit sluggishly.

If you are experiencing suicidal thoughts all day everyday on your medication, what a huge burden that is and may be an orange flag that your meds might not be right for you. Do you have a trusted doctor or Psych you can speak to about that? I can understand why you wanted to drop the meds! And your current state may be related to the medication withdrawal and may pass. But it is probably good idea to check in with your doctor.

Re the "Is it possible to develop such a high level of triggered anxiety after so long?" Not only is it possible, it has happened to you, so don't doubt your own experience.

It is good you have found a better consulting room that is not so triggering. Have you discussed your mental health with the dentist? I wonder if you explained that you cannot come in because you are unwell and ask if you can go on a waiting list for an available appointment if another patient drops out? You might just be in a place when they ring you to get the job done at short notice without the long haul of anticipation and fear that brings. Just a thought.

So sorry to hear of your burn injury and your personal self-esteem in regards the scarring, that was/is a lot to cope with and associations for pain and anxiety are strong - in smell in particular - is fundamentally and phsyiologically tied up with the laying down of memory in a very organic way. I always find it helpful to know how "things work' to help me gain knowledge about what might be happening in my body/mind as it helps me understand the mechanics of it and makes me feel less terminally unique. Smell is a very early evolutionary sense and goes straight to the limbic system so creates a strong association - for good or for aversion, and fires related feelings and behaviours outside of consious thought.

This article explains the neurophisiology of smell and how it works in the brain: http://www.odotech.com/en/part-brain-smell-special-guest-author-edition/

I use a technique of self-hypnosis at the dentist to stay in my seat and get through long procedures. It really works for me, shared here in case it may be helpful for you too.

When I sit down and they clip on the little bib and adjust the chair back, before anyone touches my mouth I ask for a moment of time - and I deep slow-breathe, I imagine myself moving down, down, down to my feet, and then imagine in my minds eye watching my feet walk. I have a strong association with the African bush and have walked out in it in the company of Elephants in Botswana many years ago - So, as my awereness is on my feet I imagine I can see the large elephant's foot next to mine (strong memory). I study that in detail, and the grass and earth below my feet. I just keep walking. Walking in my mind's eye. If the dentist asks me a question I have learned to ''pause' the walk and answer, then immediately "Play" the walk again. I am a very visual person so this works for me.

If you are more auditory person you might subsitite dancing in your mind's eye to a remembered, safe, calming or strong/encouraging song.

If more of a kinetic (touch) based person, maybe hold and feel a small ball or some soft object in your hand - and you can divert all your attention to that and concetrate on the touch and feel of it.


I can think of something else that might help you get past the triggering of the smells in surgery too.

Using a scent that you like, (I use bergamot) put a bit of the scent under your nose (testing to make sure re skin sensistivity first) and meditiate yourself calm through deep to the diagphram, slow, regular breathing. Do this every day for five minutes, using that scent only to calm yourself. On the day you go for your filling, in the car park or lobby of the dentists office (or in their toilet) dab a little of the scent beneath your nose. And breathe it in, remembering how it calms and centres you. If you start to freak out in the chair, bring your awareness back to the scent beneath your nose (or the memory of it if it has worn off) and calm your thoughts, breathing and relax all your muscles.

I have a great relationship with my dentist and if I put up my hand she stops, doesn't say anything unless I do. I can then regroup myself return to my self-hynosis and indicate to continue.

I go totally do lally tat after surgery where I have been adminsitered anaesthesia (not local) and I was off with the beasts and fairies for nearly 6 months after my Hysterectomy. I am sure that a particular post-surgey pain medication they used tripped me into psychosis. It took a good 9 moths to get myself back. Catalysts like pain, fear and medication and anesthetic can chuck us BiPoalr folk about the world. Doctors and aneathsiologists seem oblivious that these things can harm mental health because of the decompartmentalisation of medical specialty. So if you have had surgery, or been sedated using gas etc - you may have had a rebound with mental ill health. We are canaries in the cole mine!

I am sorry you have had such a hard time through your work experiences too. These things are destabilising in themselves. What happened to you in regards the firing, the being chucked into a department without any trianaing on the products and the behvipour of the manager using cctv in a devious and unprofessional way - all culminate in bad work experiences. We all have them, we all get rocked around by them. Work is fundamentally in our society our secuirty and to a large part -socially - our identity. When work goes bad we suffer. It maight help to look at each of these incidences and while not "blaming' others, nor taking out too much personal responsibility for things you could not change about the circumstances, to chalk them up as bad work experiences and move on. Life sucks sometimes and it's not us, it's life.



I am a perfectionist and a procrastinator. Particualalry doing things I find boring as bat sh*t. The best way to get something done for me is to rack up my day with the thing I enjoy doing the most at the end of all the bits I hate doing. 🙂 I gallop through the dross to reach the gold.

Perfectionism is a terrible thing to live with. I have learned to some extent to let go of the "perfect" nothing ever is. Nothing. We strive for the impossible. that's nuts. I practice letting things go. My intenal glass doors are smeared with dog noses at themoment and I see them everyday and tell myself no one is being harmed by dog nose smears and I take my attention back to my book or go and do something else. 🙂 That is not porcrastinantion that is challenging my OCD and having me win the fight.

This is long and winding and addresses some of your concerns and issues. They may not be right for you, what I say might just leave you blinking with what the hell? Sisterhood is powerful. If nothing else I have sat her for 15 minutes caring about you and what you go through. 💚

Look forward to getting to know you more, we also talk about what we love to do, and our hopes as well as what ails us. It's a great community here. It has been a life saver (literrally for me). As has Lifeline. Other people's perspectives on things I have gone through and shared with the community has helped enourmously.

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Thanks @CherryBomb for the tag.

Thanks for the response @MoonGal - You're so helpful and thoughtful.

I also wonder if @mrkotter might be interested in sharing how he managed bipolar (I hope I'm remembing your diagnosis correctly). @mrkotter do you/have you experienced racing throughts, and lack of motivation and energy? Any insights on how to manage this?

@CherryBomb and hypo at the mo. Probably said too much.

@CherryBomb yep bipolar!

Hey @demdeadendfeels I'm sorry to hear that you're feeling this way. It's been a few days since your last post, how are you feeling?

I've had those racing thoughts and lots of energy - hypomanic episodes - and then the total lack of motivation. In these states I just try and slow things down. Focus on what's important and let go of the rest. Exercise and eat well.

I feel like that this illness is death by attrition a lot of time. It takes so much out of you and it has left me feeling like you feel. It has left me confused and out of energy, that the things I love are just fading away.

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@demdeadendfeels wrote:

So yeah, that's my vent. I'm sorry if it's very hard to follow, I just can't get things right in my head. I would go talk to a counsellor, but my most recent one left town and I've not had a good track record of finding psychs that seem to know enough about bipolar or don't freak me out.

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I managed my way out of this by finding a psychiatrist that I trusted and a psychologist that I trusted even more.

I moved to Sydney this year and it took me until last month to find a psychiatrist I like. I was about to give up and just get a GP to write scripts as needed. But then I went to my first appointment and met her and I just immediately felt safe with her. She had this air of being totally in control and I could tell she gave a fuck about her patients. And I could have a conversation with her.

I guess what I'm saying is that I only got better by seeing a psychiatrist and I suggest you keep trying to find one you work with. It's taken me years to find a combination of medications that work and we (as in this is a partnership with the psychiatrist) are still refining it.

My psychologist is absolutely fantastic. Even though I'm in Sydney and she is in Canberra I still continue to see her. She's helped in so many ways I don't know where to start. But it's totally a relationship. I've had a few that I haven't liked and it was a bit shit to be honest. I like my current one so much because she takes no shit, even from the beginning she hasn't tolerated it. It's meant that I've been held to account on getting better. You might like to find a psychologist as well.

Let us know how you are going.

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@demdeadendfeels wrote:

I'm still unsure about my relationship with my husband - we broke up for a month or two about a year ago due to emotionally shutting each other out, him gaslighting me and mildly sexually abusing me. We went to counselling two or three times and then went on our merry way. It's better now, there's not really any abuse, but he still seems distance sometimes.

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There is no such thing as mild sexual abuse. "There's not really any abuse" means there is abuse. Is he continuing to gaslight you?

This is not ok. I'm not going to offer advice after all it's your call but If you feel unsure about your relationship you need to ask yourself some questions.

@CherryBomb Thank you so much for all your help. I've checked out the links and found them useful 🙂

@MoonGal
I've gone to the one GP I've managed to find in the last 5+ years that seems decent everytime I feel suicidal. I tell her I don't think the meds are working etc. The most it gets me is either one of three ways; having her ask me/strongly suggest I be hospitalised (no way. I've been there before and it just served to make me freak out even more); referring me back to the Black Dog Institute to have another review; or have her keep me on the anti-psychotics and change out my anti-depressants for a new type - I've been on so many anti-depressants I can't even count, none of them have helped.
Not to mention I'm annoyed with her and have been ever since I told her at the beginning of the year that something is still not right, I'm still lethargic, unmotivated and have no will to do anything, everything simple-difficult is a mammoth mental tug of war. Her response was that maybe it's just part of my personality that I'm lazy 😕

I suppose I'm going to have to talk to them about it if I want to save face and finish my root canal, I just find it really difficult, first off admitting I have bipolar, and then telling them that it's affecting me in a, b and c, ways - I know it's not but I get this feeling that it's just a cop out.

I've had a dig around in the info you gave me about smell and it's very interesting. I'm going to have to make some time to try the positive scent thing - thank you. Also the visual self-hypnosis thing is another I will have to try - I've attempted to try and distract myself before by either doubling numbers over and over until I can't remember where I'm up to or reciting times tables but it never seems to be enough to keep all those other pesky thoughts from entering my mind as well.
And tbh, I don't know why, because it makes so much plain sense when you explain it, but I never even thought of the drugs when I go into surgery affecting me in such a way - thank you for pointing it out to me - I'm going to be more on guard and hopefully more prepared for this next time.

And thank you - that 15 minutes you spared for me has really made a difference for me.

@mrkotter

Yeah, I'm doing ok - flat, but not terrible. I really struggle at replying sometimes, I'm sure you guys don't judge too much, but I'm usually quite wary about the things I say.

On the psychiatrist front, the one I did have in town was pretty good, but I've crossed the whole "Oh I stuffed that up and burned that bridge by not calling sooner" stupid self-defeating talk, I know, but is my reality atm. Other than that I've been to two others in town and I'm pretty much out of options now, considering I live in a regional area and there aren't that many. And most of them have either years-long waiting lists or their "books are closed".

Ok, I don't think the abuse is really happening any more, past the annoyance anyway. It's hard to tell anymore, I swear I'm losing grip on what is reality and what is just in my head and I'm finding it harder and harder to tell the difference between what is actually happening and what is just going on inside my head - or if I'm taking events and exaggerating them in my head. I dunno, I'm just so sick of being confused all the time. It's like a bad acid trip or something.

Thank you for your reply - I really appreciate it.

All of your help is appreciated guys - it's helping me reflect on things a bit more and come to a sort of actionable state.