Lost myself

Normal can mean a lot of things. I've been recently working on understanding vs processing so the first normal-check I'd want to share is the feelings of frustration are perfectly 100% normal.

When it comes to recovery norms, what's a recovery norm? Maybe it's about never about being normal but always about changing norms. Re-normalizing, even. And, that goes for internal, external and attachment norms. Maybe all the "norms" are really stepping stones. A recovery step and a new normal are the same thing.

On therapy norms, that feels like the most complicated question. I'm thinking.

Welcome, @Murphey , I'm sorry you're suffering 😞

I don't have BPD but will tag @tyme and @BPDSurvivor .

An important forum tip is if you type @ and then click on a name in the drop-down box, that person will get a notification and won't miss your reply.

I hope you find the forums supportive...

.....ok. I've thought. And I think I'm back to understanding vs processing. So, now i don't want to over think it. I don't understand how they do things (and neither do they, really). They have their place and they play their part but they're not the most important thing.

What matters is what you're looking for. You've been clear about what that is. Sense of self. You have chosen a very worthy goal. It is also a part of your "self" that has chosen the quest of true-self-seeking, which is sort of progress. That little step could be pointing at what you're after.

In a Campbell/Jung "Hero Journey" sense, maybe this means you're on a new adventure. It could also mean you're still seeking allies for the adventure you're trying to progress. It could also mean you're "in the cave" but "have the power". They're all right answers. They're all part of the journey.

I guess rather than asking “is this normal?”, which is a rather broad question in a few ways, I really should have asked “ do others with BPD have similar difficulties

with their thoughts, feelings and perceptions, whether it be about self or others, processing and/or understanding?”.

I'm yet to wrap my head around this whole attachment thing. What it is, what it is to me, how it’s played and will play a part in who I’m meant to be.

The further I journey the more lost I feel and explaining what’s going on in my head is a monumental task that I struggle with at each appointment. And at each one I’m waiting for even a small thing to click in my head to ease this journey just a tiny bit.

I'm not sure if I’m making any sense

I am sorry that you are going through a tough time at the moment.

Every time I use the word normal my wife tells me to read "The Myth of Normal" by Gabor Maté, I haven't as yet as I have so many books I am trying to read, but it does look good.

I have found that with professional help I need to really connect with the person who is providing it and then it isn't a chore and I actually look forward to my sessions. It may be worth trying alternative professionals if you feel currently it isn't what you need or expect.

It is a forever journey of healing and managing our damaged emotions and self, but in my experience so far there have been really good patches in life.

Hang in there, I hope these forums bring you some relief and confidence that you are not alone.

@Murphey Welcome to the forum.

I really liked the conversation on this thread. It is personal, varied and nuanced and real.

I have been thinking about attachment stuff for 40 years since I studied psychoanalytic theory... still thinking ... lol ... like @wellwellwellnez

@Boppa @NatureLover Hey

I was struck by you saying "Everything I do or say is wrong. My thoughts and feelings are bashed from pillar to post in a never ending game of tennis where the rules and expectations keep changing." If that is what 2nd round of treatment is doing ... something is amiss ... IMO.

Not sure if you are doing DBT ... or what the "treatment" entails.

Yes sometimes, our thoughts are not the whole story ... but I believe it is important to see them in context, rather than a simple right or wrong and feeling rejection at one's core. I doubt humans have thoughts without a reason ... even if it is tenuous... and stretching reality...

A gp said a CAT team once said I had BPD, and said it was because they did not "like" me, but they are not the ones really supposed to diagnose... So not sure if I qualify as a person talking about stuff ... I feel I have walked on borderline ... of insanity and function ... does that count?

As a parent, life is tricky and expectations upon parents seem to be rising in our current climates ... Do self care.

Re therapy ... showing up is important, but that is your KUDOS, more than the therapist ... they are getting bucks, you are acting with integrity and intention. I mostly show up 99%. Missed last session as had a couple of funerals and wa in lala land, but they understood.

Do self care. Your kids need it. Even to learn as modelling for themselves, when they face struggles later in life.

@NatureLover Thank you for your tip. I’m terrible with technology so I appreciate your help very much.

@Appleblossom I completed ACT a couple of years ago and now doing MBT both individual and group sessions. I’m honestly struggling more than ever.

And my self care is limited to toilet trips and showering on my own. Having no family whatsoever, no co-parent for my 2 kids with disabilities and severe trust issues regarding “friends”, which I can count on half a finger, it’s rarely achievable. But I’ve come accustomed to hanging in large groups of myself and avoid complete insanity by tinkering and building flat packs. I also have CRPS and chronic vertigo so am limited in the amount I can withstand physically.

I’ve learnt to adapt the things I can and can’t do daily, but the mental side kinda feels like I’ve lobotomised myself in the process so far. I’ve been in very very dark places throughout my life but nothing like this. It’s not dark, or a glimmer of light. It doesn’t even feel like a void or a crushing weight. It’s everything and nothing at the same time. It’s intense but also numb. It’s a collective combination but also separate. A trillion “items” but only a tiny glimpse of each one. All this is all the time in my head.

I’m lost.

@Murphey

Sorry to hear about your children dealing with disabilities. I have had to face up to that, it is not easy as a parent, nor is it easy to find the right level of gicing support, but not taking away the challenges of them living life to the fullest. Weary sigh ...

Hanging with a lot of yourself ... is a quirky way of talking about isolation, admitting some comfort in your own company. I am abit of a loner in some ways, but also found an antidote to total isolation is doing music in large groups. It has been VERY hard ... to socialise, with my life experiences, but at least I have been "hanging" in large groups of people. I am not sure if it a reflection of times I spent in large group homes a s akid, and that is my "comfort zone" ... or what.

Self reliance can be a powerful asset.

Oh ... you are doing the other capital letter therapees ... completed ACT ... what does that mean?

I have not done either... Most therapees I did are no longer in fashion these days. I have researched these recent ones and tried to apply what I could garner of use to my life, but I dont have lots of spare cash, and am very tired .... too ... and also tired of spending all my money on therapy, so finally am spending a tiny amount on doing stuff cos I want to ... amazing concept for me ... better late than never.

Hope others come by and post... join in on some of the more social groups, and get to know people a bit. It is a pretty good place .... all things considered.

@Appleblossom

ACT is Acceptance and commitment therapy. I felt like I had a semi decent grasp on things once I completed that but alas it wasn’t to last.

A year ago I suffered another trauma which initially resulted in “societal norm” human feelings of utter loss, grief and despair. But when those feelings were disregarded, devalued, dehumanised then demonised I unfortunately lost the hard earned amount of control Id learnt which gave way to a ranting, verbally enraged lunatic who deep down felt wounded even more by my own behaviour. Since then life in every direction has taken a downward spiral no matter what I do, how much I do or how hard I try.

I literally deal with some humans who constantly contradict everything they say and do, and no it’s not my children I’m referring to lol. Adults who state one thing then later completely contradict themselves and state the opposite yet when I seek some sort of clarification, as I’m expected to adhere to their stated request, I’m labeled uncooperative and my mental capacity is questioned.

My personal favourite is when I receive a text stating an appointment has been set for me with such and such a person on this date at this time and then…..they ring to “check in” with me and deny the upcoming appointment even exists. Even when I read the text they’ve sent I’m assured it wasn’t sent, doesn’t exist, or it must be a systematic failure due to similar case files. That’s when they start really questioning my mental state.

shit like that sends me loopy inside my head because I have the evidence to back myself up yet it’s denied over and over then somehow turned around to be my apparent bad mental state.

how are we ever to make progress when dealing with incompetence like that

i realise that I sound like a huge sook about everything but I am genuinely curious how I’m to learn when facing complexities of a dysfunctional system.

at least I can admit to and own up to my BPD and all it entails, can the system own up to their malfunctions without hand balling us around

@Murphey

I know the rough outline of ACT, sounds 'good' in theory, but I had a huge block against it when I first heard about it, due to, what I saw as a casual tossing around the concept of "acceptance" as a 'be all' good. At the time, I could not accept what had happened to me as a good. I can accept now, that it is useful and pragmatic to be able to accept one's feelings and situation, but I would say it needs a very nuanced approach, and is still not suitable for all applications.

I am a bit weird, did sciences in early years and had my feelings and emotions invalidated all the way through. I do have plenty of feelings but still often talk about them in a scientific and detached manner. I do not see then as a binary ... in the sense of head and heart as head and heart are usually connected at some level. I do recognise that often the connection is tenuous.

What do you think?

Sorry you have had to deal with a lot of incompetence and a** covering BS in the system. I have too, but mostly with respect to my loved ones, I personally, have been luckier, (still some doozies tho). I prefer remain analytical and am less trusting than I used to be.