Political Perspectives, Policies, Outcomes and Effects Relating to Mental Health Issues. {Please keep to topic}

I was actually just last night listening to a podcast about equality @chibam @HenryX . I had a problem with it that's a bit comparable.

It made the point that a lot of people make. It goes something like...

....people compare upwards more than they compare downwards.

Looking upward is inspirational but makes you feel bad.

Looking downward is less inspirational but makes you feel good.

This is wrong for me. Quite wrong. My main issue looking downward might be a way to stop complaining but it's not a reason for gratitude or complacency. Encouraging comfort in other people's suffering is part of what got us here in the first place.

It's becoming clearer and clearer to me, that the cause and harm of inequality is in-out group dynamics. That's why most people compare themselves to close people more than strangers. It's 10% about having and 9,000,000% about belonging.

That's why I like it when they hold hands at the beginning of those "step forward/backward if you....." privilege activities. When the participants have to break contact in order to play the game, it's always felt on their faces. And, I think that's the deeper point. i.e: part of the loneliness epidemic is our social divides.

@wellwellwellnez

and

@AussieRecharger, @Appleblossom , @StuF , @Emelia8 , @Clawde , @tyme , @Faith-and-Hope , @Former-Member , @Jacques , @Snowie , @Eden1919 , @Shaz51 , @RedHorse , @MDT , @chibam

One of my favourite expressions is

"to look upwards with anticipation and avoid looking downwards with fear."

I might restate the expression that you offered, @wellwellwellnez as:

"Looking upward is inspirational - and can cause us discomfort.

Looking downward is less inspirational - but can be a reason to help others up, as they may be inclined to do for us, when the situations are reversed."

Discomfort, as we look upward, can give us reason to want to improve our own position. Correspondingly, that social tendency toward equality and companionship can give us cause to want to assist others into better positions, when we glance down, or even see that we may be able to help them "up" into a better position. I think that it's a matter of perception and interpretation, and what we wish for self and others.

Many expressions and idioms can be taken or interpreted in a variety of ways. Sometimes positive or complimentary and sometimes otherwise. I do believe that all languages are so imprecise as to carry certain meanings only in the context in which they are uttered. Even then, further explanation, clarification and development of the meaning is often required to achieve mutual understanding.

We see that situation demonstrated often, in forums such as this, where a person makes a statement, others respond, and further development of the ideas, clarification or even correction, then may be required or offered by the original poster, in response to subsequent responders, in order to move towards a more uniform understanding.

I offer the following comment in relation to the more general scope of this conversation and thread. We can, I believe, learn from what is past, or behind us, with a view to changing and improving the position in front of us. However, constant reflection on past faults, mistakes and disasters, without the intention or motivation to improve our future, and that of others is, to my way of thinking, barren, counterproductive and often destructive.

With Best Wishes

@HenryX

@HenryX

Thanks for tagging me in this thread. Unfortunately I'm not in the head space to really give it the attention it deserves, but I will try and come back to it soon

Hello @StuF

Thanks for letting us know where you are at. When I tag members, it is by way of invitation, with no explicit or implied expectation for active involvement. And, understanding that to be particularly so if such activity is draining or untimely.

Look forward to connecting with you when things improve, in this or other threads on the forum and wishing you well in the mean time.

With Best Wishes

@HenryX

Thanks @HenryX

Back at ya 🙂

@HenryX I am committed in many ways to MH improve services.

I can see a few balancing acts in most people's posts on this thread.

@wellwellwellnez @chibam @AussieRecharger @MDT

People being careful to weigh their words and keen not to give offence.

Perhaps I repeat myself at times, or restate a similar theme. Not sure when it is too much.

Generally I am wary or word and concept creep ... and careful when using of metaphors.

Re: Up and down ...I liked your take on some of those issues. @wellwellwellnez

Sometimes down is good, like getting off the ladder when dizzy ...

I do not like to take things for granted, tho admittedly , if we hyper analyse every thought or statement ... it can slow one down ... might lead to reams of legalese printed on unravelling toilet rolls ... bouncing down the street.

The fragmentation of the system, and vague presumptions that, all one has to do is to keep trying to find a good fit ...feels pretty dubious to me.

I would like a register of all organisations operating in the Mental Health field, along with an attached archive of those which cease to operate.

I would like some place where the money trails are made transparent. I am tired of seeing articles about big dollars spent on the issues. I want centralised accountability. I want feedback loops made easier for people to communicate. I want to know which organisations do lose people to suicide and how much and what is to be done.

Power relations will come into it, at the individual and organisational levels.

Hello @Appleblossom

and others visiting the thread

Thank you @Appleblossom , for your observations.

Like you, I, as I am sure many others are likewise, am keen to see continuing improvements in the provision of Mental Health services.

As you suggest, even being up higher can cause us to feel discomfort, feeling dizzy. At which time we may decide that we prefer our feet planted firmly on the ground.

Your graphic word image of

"reams of legalese printed on unravelling toilet rolls ... bouncing down the street.",

amused me. Though I think that I understand your thoughts.

In the 60's through to the 90's {and most certainly prior to those years}, we had very little personal choice with regard to what services and practitioners we could access. We now have a far greater range of services and practitioners from which we may be able to select our preferred option. It is a corollary that the more options, the greater the difficulty in finding a good or best fit. Whether we like it or not, greater choice, I believe, involves wider searches.

For similar reasons, I believe that selection from the proliferation of services and practitioners would be made easier with:

"...... a register of all organisations {and practitioners, with their areas of expertise and specialisation} operating in the Mental Health field, along with an attached archive of those which cease to operate."

I am not aware if any resources, such as these, already exist.

It would also be my wish, in line with your thoughts:

to ".... have some place where the money trails are made transparent. I am tired of seeing articles about big dollars spent on the issues. I want centralised accountability."

And, possibly, performance targets and reports that address the ways in which those targets have been reached, achieved and, or accomplished.

The establishment of:

".... feedback loops made easier for people to communicate."

and

".... to know which organisations do lose people to suicide and how much and what is to be done."

Much of this note consists of material that you have offered. I hope that the note supports your thoughts, ideas and considerations.

With Best Wishes

@HenryX

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@wellwellwellnez wrote:

It's 10% about having and 9,000,000% about belonging.

---

I couldn't agree more. We don't want the luxuries with their bells and whistles. We want family. We want connection. And the only reason we buy in to most of the junk we have is because others look down on us for not having it.

One of the biggest mistakes our society makes is that it assumes it can fix peoples' lives by just throwing money at them. But it doesn't, because the material shortfalls in our lives aren't the shortfalls that matter. It's the lack of connection that needs to be resolved, not the lack of trinkets.

One of the worst ways that this problem manifests is in the assumption that anyone who has enough money doesn't need employment; completely ignoring the fact that they may desparately be in need of the companionship, achievement and/or activity that a job would give them. So consequently, the needy rich don't get any help at all; while the needy poor get money thrown at them, when what they really need is to have job offers thrown at them.

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@wellwellwellnez wrote:

....people compare upwards more than they compare downwards.

Looking upward is inspirational but makes you feel bad.

Looking downward is less inspirational but makes you feel good.

This is wrong for me. Quite wrong. My main issue looking downward might be a way to stop complaining but it's not a reason for gratitude or complacency. Encouraging comfort in other people's suffering is part of what got us here in the first place.

---

---

@wellwellwellnez wrote:

That's why I like it when they hold hands at the beginning of those "step forward/backward if you....." privilege activities. When the participants have to break contact in order to play the game, it's always felt on their faces. And, I think that's the deeper point. i.e: part of the loneliness epidemic is our social divides.

---

What complicates the issue so much more is when we can't agree on which direction is "up" and which one is "down". And that, I suspect, is probably the greatest divider of all.

Perhaps the best illustration is that scene from "A Christmas Carol" where the impoverished Mr. Crachett invites the terminally single Ebeneezer Scrooge to join his family for their modest Christmas dinner, instead of sitting all alone through the holiday surrounded by his bags of money.

Who is looking down at who, I wonder? Scrooge looks down on Crachett for being poor; Crachett looks down at Scrooge for being alone. There's no consensus on what constitutes "up" and "down".

Now imagine them if they were both equally rich. Would that make them peers? Would they understand one another? Would they connect? I doubt it. Crachett would still see his loving family as his most precious asset, whereas Scrooge would perceive similar connections to be a regrettable drain on his wealth.

There's something much deeper creating a rift between them then their differing financial statuses.

And this comes in to play in the realms of mental health, and helping people, because it's not enough to simply pitty someone in need. You have to have consensus as to what you're pittying them about, and what improvement looks like.

Otherwise you wind up in a massive mess where you are pittying people because their lives don't look like the sort of life you would want for yourself. You begin correcting their lives to suit your tastes. Which can easily lead you to destroying aspects of their life they were happy with, or completely ignoring the serious problems that are causing them real distress.

Unfortunately that's the mess our system is in at the moment. Because we go in assuming that there's a universal perception of "up" and "down", when there really isn't.

"On the one hand, the more “players” that are involved in determining the best methods of addressing the issues, the more intertwined and possibly confused the issues and possible methods of addressing them, may become. On the other hand, I believe that we have an obligation, at all levels, to consider and address these issues, among all others."

@HenryX - Agenda's and why the person is interested in an outcome is also a massive part of this issue. Those who only serve to protect the guilty poison the chalice of bringing good to bad outcomes.

We have many checks and balances such as conflict of interest laws, auditing, but corruption for personal gain always becomes part of the system.

One thing i was thinking about this morning is we apply for jobs for a salary or hourly wage, but we never have a conversation of " How can this business remunerate you to bring the best out of your life?

Should the political system be looking at the very way we get paid for our time and see if it is fit for purpose in today's society? Are the very values applied to our pay systems working to devalue society?