FORUMS

Connect with people who understand what you are going through, seek advice and surround yourself with support. We're free, anonymous, and professionally moderated 24/7.

  • 47,612Members
  • 1,358,869Posts
  • 1,400,000Visitors
Something’s not right

The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

I'm hoping that this thread might catch the attention of the sections of SANE that periodically sit down with the government and other major entities to discuss mental health policies (@Former-Member , perhaps you could pass the word along?). But I wanted to do this as a thread, as opposed to a private email to SANE, so that the rest of the community here could chime in with their thoughts.

Basically, what I want is to call some meaningful attention to the fact that poor beaurocracy management can have serious mental health impacts upon the community, and these impacts need to be factored in to the decisions that our leaders make about how the beaurocracy functions.

I suspect that, at the moment, these concerns don't factor in to our appraisals of how well the beaurocracy works, nor what changes ought to be made to it in the future. I suspect that our leaders gauge the beaurocracy based on cold economics: "How much does it cost?", "How much data can it process?", "How long are it's delays?", and "Where can we cut down expenses?" And choices are made based upon how much money they will save, with nobody caring about how much grief they will collectively inflict upon the general public.

Over the past couple weeks, my household has been dealing with a pile-on of unrelated beaurocratic problems, and the distress and frustration they have caused us has been significant. I've had to try to reign myself in from panicking, and had restless/sleepless nights, and I've seen how wound up my family members have been, thanks to their own problems.

And although we've been dealing with several differant problems, I can tell you very simply what caused every single one: leaders running their beaurocracy on the cheap!

Some of these significant problems that we've been wrestling with come from beaurocratic errors so basic, you'd hardly believe it. And it just speaks to a slipshod beaurocracy that wants to do things quickly and as cheaply as possible, because a professional beaurocracy would've never let such simple errors snowball into the major grievances they've become. Our leaders hire workers to be speedy and careless, because carelessness is cheaper then dilligence.

Of course, carelessness always ends up costing somebody dearly. But so long as those costs are visted on innocent citizens outside the beaurocracy, they are never factored in to beaurocracy's accounting ledger.

So, as far as the leaders are concerned, cheap, slipshod practices are just a wonderful way of reigning in expenses. No downsides, whatsoever. Give the boss a Rolex for doing such a great job of streamlining the system.

The same attitudes only compound the wronged citizen's grief when they are applied to the call centers. Spend all day waiting on hold for an opperator who gives you confusing misinformation, or who tells you that she can't help you because she's only a basic-level employee, who isn't given the utilities to actually correct the errors in your file.

Why? Once again, because it's cheaper! It's cheaper to pack your call centers with throngs of basic-level employees with limited duties and access. It's cheaper to have the IT dept. design only very basic information software for the opperators to use on their consoles. It's cheaper to use masses of inneffective employees as gatekeepers for a very small team of effective employees who are trustworthy enough to be given meaningful access to the system, and who have the necesary work ethic to actually help people out.

I know that my household's grievances will be resolved properly, eventually. Our positions are so thoroughly backed up by the paperwork that there is no way that things won't ultimately work out in our favor.

But the thing is, once all is said and done, the system will forget about this. The errors will be ammended, the books will be neatly balanced, and on paper, all will be right with the world once again.

But we won't forget what we've been put through. We're worn out by this.

And my concern is that when you have a system that glosses over and forgets the errors so readily, there's no interest in insuring that it doesn't happen again, and again, and again... and so all that silent heartache just keeps getting poured out on to the poor citizenry, as if it's no big deal.

You only need to look at the death and despair inflicted by the robodebt fiasco to see how hazardous these sorts of problems can become.

So I just think that somebody with a voice that matters (e.g. SANE) needs to call our major institutions out on this.

There's all this talk now about how mental health needs to be woven deep into the functionality of our society. Businesses are being pushed to incorporate a "mentally healthy workplace" focus into the heart of their business models. The government is being urged to take a "whole of government" approach to mental health. So we need our leaders to start acknowledging the significant mental health impacts of bad beaurocracy.

Whenever someone is looking to save a lot of money by making significant cuts to the beaurocracy, we need someone to be double checking that the propose changes will be measured not only in "money saved", but also in "heartache inflicted."

15 replies

1 - 10 of 15

In response to: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Morning @chibam,

Thank you for your food for thought! I agree that it can be very distressing to experience services reduced, funds cut etc. One thing I've noticed in the sector, generally since covid, is in an increase in funds. Though I can't speak to their overall distribution, I've found it heartening.

You speak passionately to these points @chibam so I was wondering whether you have considered joining mental health consumer advocacy groups? If you're interested, Lived Experience Australia might be a good place to start

In response to: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Bureaucracy likes to record everything, so it should record it's affects on real people.

In response to: Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Thanks, @Former-Member .

I dip in and out of the advocacy realm as my nerves and stamina will allow. I'm not always up for getting involved with a discussion, you know?

I contribute to surveys from advocacy orgs sometimes, but the catch there is that your sort of boxed-in to discussing the issues they want to discuss at the time, and answering the questions that they've decided to ask. Sometimes, you can't help but notice that they don't seem to be asking the right questions.

Likewise, in a situation like this, where I'm sort of inspired to draw some attention on to an issue that doesn't seem to be getting much attention at the moment (i.e. beaurocracy), you just have to hope that if you speak out in places like this, the advocacy orgs will take an interest. As I said, I could've expressed my concerns in an email to SANE (Lived Experiance Australia seems to be connected to SANE), but I figured a forum post would be a great way to get broader insight from the community here.

Sometimes, I also get involved in inquiries, but more of the same difficulties there: your usually limited to a certain scope of interest. And what you come to learn is that your tiny little individual voice usually counts for almost nothing compared to the voices of the prominent organizations. So essentially, if you want to get your point across, you need to convince a big organization to address it for you.

It would be easier to stomach if I believed the problems are mine alone. I'm not so important that I warrant major government policy course-corrections to alleviate my difficulties.

But spending time in places like this, I get the impression that my woes are echoed thousands of times over, throughout the community. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the sufferers seem to lack the strength or faith to speak out to the powers that be. So I end up speaking out in places, virtually all alone; but it feels like I'm speaking on behalf of thousands. And so that's why it really burns me when it feels like my input just gets passed over.

I dunno. Maybe it's just my ego raging. I hope not. I hope I have more humility then that. But I am a flawed human being, after all.

In response to: Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

S

In response to: Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

I can relate to that feeling of dipping in and out as the nerves and stamina allow @chibam. I find it a bit of a balancing act negotiating the internal passion to act on the things I care about versus nurturing myself when I feel I don't have many spoons left. It can be difficult when the fire is burning, and I can see the injustice in things, yet I know it's probably best for me in the moment to put some things on the shelf. I think the earlier version of me was far more bullish and bold, particularly when it came to matters of social justice, though some issues still stoke the flames enough to want to act in whatever small way I can.

I didn't realise Lived Experience Australia had a connection to SANE. I've just signed up myself to find out more about how to get involved, so if there is any valuable info to share I'd be happy to report back in this space, if you'd find that worthwhile.

But moving back more broadly to the sentiments you've expressed here in the forum, I don't think it's a matter of your ego raging, @chibam. What I hear is a deeply passionate and caring person sharing their story of frustation with a system that doesn't always get it right. There is a lot of power in that.

In response to: Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Thanks, @Historylover & @Former-Member !


@Former-Member wrote:

I didn't realise Lived Experience Australia had a connection to SANE. I've just signed up myself to find out more about how to get involved, so if there is any valuable info to share I'd be happy to report back in this space, if you'd find that worthwhile.


Yes! Please do!

I'm sure they must be connected to SANE. When you click their "forums" button on the top banner of their website, it just redirects you back here.

In response to: Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

@chibam @Former-Member The other issue I have with our bureaucratic system is that it takes donkey's years to get issues written on paperwork, and by the time people start listening and acting on the help and support I've been begging and screaming for so long, it finally works out but the damage is already done. So now I not only get the assistance I've been asking for, I also need other types of support now to reverse all the shitshow rubbish that has happened due to lack of assistance. My question is why in heck does it take issues to become a major trauma for someone to decide that yes, I'm actually telling the truth and I need assistance?

In response to: Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Hearing you @Former-Member

Have similar situation myself .... the old stitch in time saves nine .... can be very true for mental health issues .... but that does not mean everything should be treated in an ED.

@chibam Yep 3 Coroners reports here. Falling between the cracks. Even this week I had to work hard managing NDIS as the cracks are many ....

In response to: Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors

Re: The Hidden Costs Of Beaurocratic Errors


@Former-Member wrote:
The other issue I have with our bureaucratic system is that it takes donkey's years to get issues written on paperwork...

IME, you are lucky if you can even get something written on paper.

I remember many years ago I had an issue I needed to get an explaination for, and I specifically wanted a written response from the department involved, so that I would have a paper record incase things went sideways.

I had to write them a letter by post, as there was no email contact for them. I included my email address and (probably unwisely), my postal address, too. But no phone number as I wanted to insure a written response.

Weeks later, I got a phone call from this department. The guy on the other end actually complained to me that I should've included my phone number and that he had to look my phone number up in the white pages.

I explained that I wanted a written record of their response, or some sort of referance number for the phone conversation, incase I needed to refer to it later, but the guy refused to give me any sort of record I could depend on.

The issue was managed so poorly that I had to send a second letter off to clarify the confusion and missing information that arose from the unsolicited phone call. Same again; no written response, an unwanted phone call instead, no permantent record or referance for what had transpired.


@Former-Member wrote:
.. and by the time people start listening and acting on the help and support I've been begging and screaming for so long, it finally works out but the damage is already done. So now I not only get the assistance I've been asking for, I also need other types of support now to reverse all the shitshow rubbish that has happened due to lack of assistance. My question is why in heck does it take issues to become a major trauma for someone to decide that yes, I'm actually telling the truth and I need assistance?
@Appleblossom wrote:

Hearing you @Former-Member

Have similar situation myself .... the old stitch in time saves nine .... can be very true for mental health issues .... but that does not mean everything should be treated in an ED.


So true. And IME, even after the significant wait times, you are lucky if you actually get the help you need.

I've only ever found myself waiting very long times (and enduring very long periods of "treatment") to discover that the so-called "help" you've been waiting on is actually no help at all.

1 - 10 of 15