Covid Statistics Discussion

Hi @pancakes ,

It sounds like these statistics have weighed heavily on your mind, I'm wondering how you're feeling about them?

I appreciate your acknowledgment that this is a big topic in the world at the moment, and reminder to be mindful of others- it shows a lot of empathy and awareness for the different perspectives we may all carry. For those continuing in this discussion, I am also going to link our community guidelines to build on pancakes mention of being aware of others, and help support you through this discussion

cloudcore

@pancakes

Fair thing to bring up.

I was taught a long time that stats can be used to prove anything, just depends on which way it is skewed.

In this case each statistical event is about a person with other people around them being effected. So I would not want to be the one who was seriously ill or watch others suffer and die.

That said, I have said if it is my time, it is my time.

I no longer buy the mainstream media line. They are throwing around too many stats, which may bamboozle people not used to them. Its totally turned me off.

Does anyone know the stats on extra plastics and waste products due to Covid?

Does anyone know the stats on people that have suffered other injury, illness or death because of the focus (obsession) on one form of sickness.

IMHO, the stats are completely unreliable.

I never had much faith in them anyway, and then I saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8whdNLdf88 which revealed how skewed the WHO's reporting criteria for coronavirus deaths is.

In particular, if you sustain a fatal injury - say, multiple bullet wounds - while you just happen to have coronavirus, you are recorded as a coronavirus death!

By that logic, you could argue that jock itch has cause more deaths than World War 2...

Additionally, those raw statistics don't provide any context of:

- level of occupancy/overwhelm of hospitals dealing with severe cases. Double the cases doesn't necessarily mean double the death rate if health care isn't resourced to care for those who need it.

- amount of non-COVID medical procedures that had to be cancelled /delayed for dealing with COVID hospitalisations. No context about how many people had worse health outcomes due to having to delay a procedure due to planned or actual COVID hospitalisations.

Hello all 👋 @TheVorticon @chibam @Appleblossom @cloudcore and thanks for dropping in with your thoughts. You've all brought some interesting thoughts to the table, and given me things to think about that build on from my own views on the situation.

One point in particular that was made being how many people have not received treatment for other health issues because the focus and priority has been the corona virus. This is really important, a really good point, and one that deserves attention. It's not only people with physical health issues that are being left without treatment, but so many people are unable to access support for their mental health as well. In talking to others who have mental illness that requires treatment, I have learned that there are people who have been unable to access support as doctors surgeries are overwhelmed and have no available appointments. As well as mental health support from psychiatrists or psychologists becoming so back logged that people give up reaching out for help.

@cloudcore you asked what my thoughts were on the stats. Well, I remember when covid first came on the scene and it was hyped up in the media and it created mass panic. I remember keeping an eye on the statistics, focusing on the facts rather then the media hype. The percentage of fatalities has always been a very small margin. Very small. Even in the beginning. This is where I have kept my attention focused, less than 1% of those who contracted the virus died. To me, this is such a small percentage. To me, I look at the less than 1% and weigh it up with the onslaught of complications we're facing in the world right now and ask myself which is worse. To me, isolation causes more problems than it solves. Attempting to contain the virus has caused such widespread damage. Businesses crumbling, our economy in the toilet, unemployment sky rocketing, people not being permitted to be with loved ones, not being able to attend funerals or weddings, grandparents and the elderly spending their last years alone, people trapped in abusive relationships with no where to go, children with no escape from domestic violence, schools having to close and kids "learning" at home. I can not even fathom what the long term psychological effects are going to be as a result of all this. That is what really worries me. That is what keeps me awake at night, not the fear of contracting the virus, not the fear of being in the 1%, but the fear of how this is going to shape humanity in the long term.

My son isn't used to seeing the masks here in Tas. I have had to reassure him that it's just me under the mask but it does make him feel afraid. And that's gotten me to thinking about the psychological affect this is all having on our kids. Are we going to be raising a generation of kids who will grow up with health anxiety issues? Will they be able to function or will they be too afraid to interact with the world? Will they even feel comfortable leaving their house? I don't know. It does worry me.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, I could prattle on for hours here as I'm sure we all could. Thanks again to those who responded and for being respectful of each others opinions when posting 👍

Thank you, @pancakes for airing those very important concerns.

To me, everything you describe traces back to a massive societal flaw that has been causing and exaserbating grief for the "mentally ill" & suffering community for decades - well before coronavirus ever appeared on the scene.

Namely, the unchecked societal obsession with preserving and enhancing length of life, at the expense of protecting and enhancing quality of life. Too many people in power fanatically deciding for the masses that living long is far, far more important then living well.

This has been the bane of the suicidal community forever; being surrounded by people so mindlessly obsessed with insuring that we remain alive, we have nobody around us who bothers to investigate whether or not we would be better off dead. (Which, in many cases, we would be).

Consequently, we wind up with an awful lot of sufferers who are in the exact same boat as myself - long-lived tragedies who would've been so much better checking out ages ago; but we couldn't, because the powers-that-be dictated that our early demise would offend their anti-suicide values. What about our values? What about our distress?

Now we're all seeing what happens when that sort of mindless obsession with longevity spreads into a society-wide pandemic policy. We are governed by zealots who are single-mindedly obsessed with prolonging life, and utterly devoid of any interest or care for what happens to quality of life along the way. Forget about correcting the inhustices that have been thrust upon you; and prepare yourself for an onslaught of PSA messages about how you have to "manage" and "learn to cope with" the grief that has brewed up in your wonky brain. We suicidals have been dancing this dance for decades.

And thus, we end up, yet again with a very long-lived populace, with life expectancies scarcely effected by the dreaded coronavirus; and yet without a sceric of joy or value in those very long, very pointless lives. Quantity wins out over quality, yet again.

I agree @chibam and I think we can even take it one step further. If we look behind that drive to prolong life, what's behind it? Fear. Fear seems to be the driving horse behind it all, in my opinion. People fear death. Which I suppose is natural, but not useful. And I agree, it would make a Hell of a lot more sense to put the effort into improving quality of life rather than prolonging a miserable one.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here 👍

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@pancakes wrote:

I agree @chibam and I think we can even take it one step further. If we look behind that drive to prolong life, what's behind it? Fear. Fear seems to be the driving horse behind it all, in my opinion. People fear death. Which I suppose is natural, but not useful. And I agree, it would make a Hell of a lot more sense to put the effort into improving quality of life rather than prolonging a miserable one.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here 👍

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So true. We are raised to fear death, aren't we?

What amazes me though is how, for others, fear of death doesn't become eclipsed by fear of life. The longer you live, the more you get to see life for what it really is. You begin to see just how impossible your illusions of a good tomorrow truly are.

If I'm honest, I still fear death. I don't know what's out there. Maybe it really is the fire, brimstone and pitchforks we all heard about in sunday school. Maybe it's infinitely worse. But despite the risks, I still fear being alive this time next year much, much more then I fear being dead by then.

Because I've seen life for what it is. And it is truly horrifying.

I know my fear of death is unfounded and therefore irrational. I can't say that about my fear of life. It is very well-supported.

Hi @pancakes

This is a good subject - I can add my experience here

Because of COVID I did not attend a hospital when I tripped and fell heavily seriously injuring my left shoulder that was already compromised. I doubt things would have been any easier had I gone to the ED - I was afraid to as COVID was pretty new then and who knew what was what at that stage

And because of this shoulder injury I have needed to be in hospital several times for ablations - I have had three emergency admissions - on the last occasion I had trouble getting an ambulance for transport but was successful after some hours.

Also - I was unable to get the fluid replacement injections I need for this injury when my specialist could not do this during the lock-downs Melbourne is so famous for - apparently

I am sorry other people - any other people - have had trouble getting any kind of treatment during COVID-19. And being in hospital when there are no visitors allowed and the patients are not free to walk about without a mask and stick to their rooms is isolating

Let's hope things improve

Dec

Hi @Owlunar thank you for sharing your experience here, I'm sorry for what you're having to deal with, it must be taxing on your mental health as well