A Good Article I Came Across

Hello @MDT

Thank you for direction to that article:

"In every country in the world, male self-inflicted deaths outnumber female. Will Storr asks why.?"

"

Though research into the distribution of loss of life, in the manner described in the article, according to gender, social status, nationality, national prosperity, etc., in this way, is just the tip of the question of Why? This article does, indeed, attempt to address the question.

It is possible that open discussion may assist many. How often do we hear from relatives and friends after such events:

"If only we had known how they were feeling, we could have done something!!"

"

In fact, Drummond, the man referred to in the article, took the "Step to the Right":

"Back in that cold farmhouse room on the Norfolk fens, Drummond sat with his pills and his urge to take them all. What saved him was the lucky accident of one his personal projects, (he) being a Samaritans volunteer. He went in one day, and instead of listening to clients, he talked for two hours. “I know from personal experience that a lot of people are alive today because of what they do,” he says."

{extract from the article}

"

I wonder if it was just luck for Drummond that he was a Samaritans volunteer. I believe that it is often the case that we place ourselves in positions that we know will give us the safety net or parachute, that saves us from situations in which we might otherwise, not have survived. This forum might be considered one such structure.

“

I read that paper and didn't quite reach the stage of having to wipe my eyes dry, but the tears were lurking very close, just under the surface.

“

The article raises the question for me, as I am sure it would for others, how close any of us have ever come to such a decision, what issues, circumstances lead us toward, and what ideas and considerations stop us from taking that step?

“

Is there honour, disgrace or simply relief in the contemplation and completion of those ideas?

“

What artificial barriers can we identify, that are imposed on us, and prevent us from talking openly about our fears, concerns and roles, and even, what may be considered the ultimate sacrifice, or the ultimate escape? Such imposition of barriers is, I think, part of the reason for lack of, and often the cause of sublimation of the desire to discuss.

“

I have often thought, while it is obviously not the only contributor to loss of life in a war zone, that participation in, and loss of life in war, may at times skew the statistics on self-inflicted death.

“

With Care, Concern and Consideration

@HenryX

Wow that's a lot of reading there @MDT @I read up to the part where it got me thinking "I was sports person of the year in primary" then faded out, hope you're day has been good, hey @HenryX

To be honest @MDT, I felt like I was reading a novel. A fiction. Like the people weren't connected to empathy but just spoke of it. It left me feeling unpleasantly drained.

Hello@Historylover , @MDT , @Former-Member

I do not think that the ideas presented in the article were intended to elicit sympathy or empathy. It is a self described Social Justice oriented paper to do with research in the area of self-inflicted death. This is a topic, that at the present time has considerable weight, as if it does not at any other time? This article, I believe is an attempt to bridge the theoretical "science" to the mind of the public, for whom dry research material and outcomes would mean little. As indicated in the paper, countries where opportunity and promise are booming, such as China, the deaths, in the categories being discussed, statistically are reducing and relatively low, presumably because of the apparent opportunity and promise anticipated for the future. In countries where that type of development occured 30 years ago, such as South Korea, and the arrival of the promised benefits, has not been consistent with the anticipated or projected outcomes for everyone, the self-inflicted death rate, statistically, is increasing and among the highest of these is the rate in South Korea, where we might have expected the arrival of affluence to have brought with it improved mental health outcomes and a reduction of self-inflicted deaths. Paradoxically, the rate of self-inflicted death is now, and has been increasing.

"The power of the perceived expectations of others, and the sense of cataclysm when you believe you’ve failed them, emerges in an accelerated form in Asia, where suicide rates can be devastatingly high. Worst-affected in the region is South Korea, which has, by some counts, the second-highest suicide rate in the world." {Extracted from the article}

I believe that sympathy and empathy is appropriate where such events have occured and we are in a position to express those emotions and offer support and sympathy to those nearby. However, that, to my way of thinking, is not the style or intention of a research paper, or even the public presentation of such information. There is sufficient personalised information, re Drummond, in the article to connect personalised experience with the topic, the primary objective of which appeared to me, to be consideration of the reasons for such events and what could be done to reduce the occurrence of those events.

@HenryX

Hi @MDT

{Total Words ~840}

Thank you for your reply.

This note, while I hope that it may be of interest to the people for whom services are provided, is directed mainly toward the people within the service delivery organisations. The scope of this message is not terribly broad but mainly historical. From the past we learn about the future.

When I first went to Geraldton, about 30 yrs ago, I undertook training in suicide prevention for a new phone service to be provided in the Mid-West Region of W.A. The program was organised then by local psychologists under the auspices of a state government department, the name of which I've forgotten. Possibly Dept of Communities under one of its previous names. Prior to my arrival in Geraldton, I had undertaken a course conducted by Family Court Counsellors, psychologists and senior community based service providers, to train personnel for the provision of the first formal family and community mediation service to be operated in Western Australia.

The emphasis of the Geraldton based suicide prevention service was to reach people who actually were, or felt marginilised as a result of identity issues. Along the lines then of what people who identify as represented by the LGBTIQA+ banner now. The service was promoted and advertised throughout the region. From recollection of discussions and debriefs with the members operating the service, anecdotal reports indicated that the service was reasonably effective in provision of service and attracting calls from the target group of people. However, I do not recall any statistical analysis that may have indicated a change in the number of self-inflicted deaths by comparison with any time before or after the service was introduced.

I do believe that as a country, there were various similar attempts, in Australia, to reach people who may not have been able, or were reluctant to engage with mainstream support services. However, these initial projects seemed to be fragmented and had little cross-connection between the various provider groups. In those days, the "brick" styled and sized "mobile" (with a small car) phones were used. As the telephone services and devices became more sophisticated, centralised state and national harm prevention services developed. These services tended to displace the "less efficient" and restricted localised and regional services.

Since that time, there has been a great deal more research and awareness of "self-inflicted death", both nationally and internationally, as demonstrated by the article that you recommended .

Possibly, as a result of that research, there has, I believe, been developed an awareness, as is the case in the range of mental illness issues, that there is no particular nationality, social level, financial, ethnic ......etc., group that stands out as an area of society that is more highly represented than another. Even the ratios in gender groups, while they are numerically different, the ratios remain relatively constant. Though, in the fourth paragraph, the writer refers to statistics that show the rate of suicide among females, at "....6,233 suicides were registered in the United Kingdom in 2013. While the female suicide rate has remained roughly constant since 2007, that for men is at its highest since 2001. Nearly eight in 10 of all suicides are male—a figure that has been rising for over three decades." These statistics show that, while the rate of suicide among men has, historically been greater than the rate among women, the relative rate or ratio is diverging. The rate of suicide among men is increasing, while the rate among women has remained relatively constant.

Organisations, with whom certain groups of people identify, can now more easily be provided with standardised information and appropriate service and service delivery options in order to pass that information and those services on to their specific "consumer or target groups". This is because of increases in the range of facilities, access and capacity to distribute and provide information, within specified "target groups", that those organisations might actually or perceive themselves to be representing.

Unfortunately, when barrels of money are being distributed, opportunism often raises its head. I am certain that, as was the case years ago, certain people realise that their vested and sometimes personal interests, ride on the back of, and are best served by getting hold of some of that money, and issues are then raised as a platform on which people can move themselves, by use of their pet cause, ahead of the rest, (up the ladder).

During the years that I have been involved with various organisations, I have seen community meetings manipulated to achieve desired outcomes that, I believe, have been more in favour of certain individuals or groups, than the needs of the people for which the meeting and its purported purpose and outcome was ostensibly arranged. Unfortunately, ill gotten gains are often hidden within legal and otherwise legitimate enterprises. Corruption and mis-direction and, or mis-application of funds is not a phenomenon restricted to little, or even big countries, of questionable repute. While that observation may seem off topic, it is one of the concerns at the forefront of my mind. And, unfortunately, it is very much a part of the industry that this topic addresses. It is the reason that many people do not have access to the services which the public budget suggests, or indicates, are provided. This is not, in any way a political statement, but unfortunately, what I believe is accepted or considered acceptable in a whole range of quarters.

The issue of use and misuse of funds was not raised in the article that you recommended, however, I do believe, that all people genuinely interested in the welfare of the people they represent, should take particular note of financial documents, income and expenditure and be aware of any deviations from the essence of the service of which they are a service providing member or participant.

With Care, Concern and Commitment

@HenryX

Edit: Material printed in purple above was added on 23 Oct 21 at 7.15 pm AWST

@HenryX — perhaps I didn't put it as well as I might have. I think the picture set the tone — like the cover of a novel, and lacking in a sense of 'true connection' to such a serious matter.

It might have been more accurate to have said that, for me, it lacked a sense of true empathy from the author — like he regarded the man, and the subject, to be merely an object for study. He didn't actually emotionally connect to it.

That's the way it affected me and, as always, responses are subjective. I don't wish to comment further, @HenryX.

Feeling fine, thank you @MDT. Hope you are too.