Seeking Answers to My Questions

You make some valid points, but we all know how complicated these things are. These days I think I probably earn more than I should, a few years ago I was part time on minimum wage doing something I mostly enjoyed. The problem, at least for me, is more from the wants than the needs. I could cover my needs on part time minimum wage, but I couldn't afford anything I wanted. Now I do something that I still enjoy, but it's not an easy job. I'm sure there's a sweet spot there somewhere.
I'm always amazed at the uneven distribution of wealth in communist countries, I just don't see how it could ever truely work in practice.
But there are plenty of plus sides to the societies we've all formed, I do like being able to travel, buy food instead of having to grow or hunt all the time. Having drinkable water on tap is pretty great too. Although I still wouldn't mind disappearing into a cabin in the woods one day.
None of that is really an answer, but I don't know that there really is one answer to a question like this.

Hi @P12, I don't think we have met on the forum before. I have read some of your posts, including this latest. I am 58 and have been thinking about these kinds of questions my whole adult life and even in childhood, a time when I experienced a huge amount of loneliness which drew me inside myself and my own curiosity of mind. I see the world around us as very far from ideal, nor do I find it based on any overall logic.

Which part of society pays a minimum wage to workers to do that for which they are naturally talented and interested?

There seems to be growing discussion in the world about a universal basic wage. I totally support that as long as it is possible to live on without high financial stress within the standards of the society where it is implemented. People could choose to live partly or wholly on the basic wage and then work voluntarily (or not) according to talent and capability. It may be that most people would still choose regular work for the material gains, but those unable to, or for whom this is a completely miserable option, would be provided for as equal members of the community.

And why has Australia rejected communism?

Vast numbers of people and maybe most nations are in fear of communism, with some good reasons. Communism was a radical peoples' movement that started in Russia, where it rose into a successful 'peoples' revolution' in the first part of the 1900s. As I see it, the ideology (Marxism) contained many good things and was a big push back at rampant inequality and alienation in people. But the implementation of Communism in the real world became terribly corrupt, brutal, oppressive, paranoid to live in and utterly miserable. Anywhere it still exists now by that name seems also to be terrible in practice. I am in favour of much greater socialist principles within the capitalism that dominates us now, but that is a very different thing to a Communist regime.

It seems there is a large gap in Australia between people being paid relatively high wages to do things to which they disagree and which reduces their welfare, and in some cases are illegal...

There are also huge numbers of good people working in the community at decent things that don't require them to go against conscience, some would be paid highly and some very lowly, and everything in between. However it seems mostly the case that even these fortunate people still have to be able to manage the super-speedy, frighteningly deadline-driven nature of the workplace these days. I think workplace stress is a major factor behind the almost pandemic levels of mental health breakdowns in world populations.

...and those who are not paid at all for following their natural instincts.

That's pretty much me at 58, having been a mostly unpaid creative worker since I was 22. Along the way I've also attempted possibly more than 30 regular jobs which caused multiple mental and physical breakdowns until I was allowed a disability pension, on which I can live a simple life without the devastating stresses I had in previous decades. It's one of the absolute best things that ever happened to me. I am still working at my creativity.

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems there is no land in the world where one can be free of citizenship.

I don't think there is. There are a minority of people who have no nation for various reasons. They may be on the high seas as refugees or living in airports while trying to find a country that will let them live there.

Apparently, if someone is born so different to the rest of the world's population, they must suffer for the duration of their life. How can someone be free other than purely intellectually?

Suffering is part of life for all of us, but from reading earlier of your posts, I know that you are suffering loneliness and sadness to a degree that is very hard to bear. I have felt myself to be in unbearable places sometimes and I also inwardly protest and feel anger about the state of things. It's hard to accept life as it is when we are acutely suffering.

I feel for what you have been going through these past 10 years, that you wrote about in earlier forum posts I read. I wonder what your interests outside work are. My non-paying creative interests and work have been a lifeline for me in many different ways, helped me through very dark times and brought me in contact with others with similar interests, some now friends.

I also find a sense of community with others who have experience of mental illness, especially here on the forum. I hope you are comforted by connections here as well, and that this social space and these conversations may even help you come to some ideas how your life may be happier into the future.

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@P12 wrote:

Which part of society pays a minimum wage to workers to do that for which they are naturally talented and interested?

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The customers of whatever business, ect. those workers are working for.

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@P12 wrote:

It seems there is a large gap in Australia between people being paid relatively high wages to do things to which they disagree and which reduces their welfare, and in some cases are illegal, and those who are not paid at all for following their natural instincts.

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One could argue that the first group you mention are following their natural instincts. If they are so obsessed with money that they are willing to sell their souls and do pretty much anything for it, doesn't that say something fairly significant about their character?

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@P12 wrote:

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems there is no land in the world where one can be free of citizenship. In Australia, one cannot legally camp on crown land indefinitely. Apparently, if someone is born so different to the rest of the world's population, they must suffer for the duration of their life. How can someone be free other than purely intellectually?

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Not sure I entirely understand what your getting at here... but based on my interpretation of it, this is why I've always been advocating for a big part of the mental health system to be focussed on relocating people to their most ideologically-compatable communities. In my naieve youth, I believed that it was done automatically, but now I realize there needs to be major system reform to get the job done.

Many of us are just born in the wrong places, under the wrong social standards and agendas. We aren't "wrong". And our communities aren't "wrong", either. The only wrong is that dame fortune placed us together. That's why we need a formal system to send us to our true homes, with our true families, so that everybody can be happy.

Naturally, flawed humanity won't be able to construct such a system that does its job perfectly. But if it is maintained properly, it will be an immense boon to all humanity.

Hello @P12

Maybe yearning to understand is part of the human condition.

@Jacques is also interested in Universal Human Wage ... and the Happiness aspect in Bhutan.

Recently I have had time to research randomly and enjoy that Indian political parties engage with socialist ideas to a greater degree than here in Australia. Yet they are also dealing with the farming crises where small landholders are feeling the pressure that large private companies can gain monopolies.

Sorting through these questions is huge. I did a pol sci major so love thinking about these things. Some might say ... oh shush up Apple.

Work is a significant issue. If work is expected to be a pain, but pay the bills, then hobbies are needed. I believe setting projects, tasks and work etc is important, whether or not it is paid. There are also ideas around ... like Modern Monetary theory.

Great questions.

Cheers, @HenryX. Glad you found that interesting. I actually took hours to go through my thoughts on the questions and find a way to word them that was as brief as possible, but still turned out long! I agree with @Appleblossom that @P12 has posed some really interesting questions with this discussion thread. Have a good one today, all here.

it seems to me world wide, the people who work the hardest get payed the least and the ones who do very little get payed a lot. i have had many arguments with people who say they "work hard" to get to where they are adnd i ask them what manual labour they have done? they all look at me stupid, i ask them if there job was obsolete tomorrow what effect would that have on the world? they don't produce food, they don't produce shelter. i have a friend who is a seasonal worker, she is full of arthritis from 30 years of hard manual labour and she is now told by centerlink she has to continue to work at hard manual labour because she is a burden to society, she helped feed people until her body broke and now she is worthless. is that what society has become? your woth is how much money you can make for society?

even our government, any time they talk about mental illness funding it is based on how much the economy loses in profit, money, nothing about the individual being happy and healthy or getting better.

i agree with @P12 where can you live in this world truly free? everywhere you go you have to live in "Other" peoples way of life. decided for us before birth. i sometimes feel i am going through the motions that has been pre determined for me long before i was thought of. i feel like a cog in the machine, no real individual worth.

Thanks to all who responded.

Is anyone able to share their experience gaining a volunteer role at an organisation of their choice? When I've asked organisations in my interest area whether I can volunteer to share my talents while also gaining personal development, I'm usually told the organisation doesn't accept volunteers, or if they do only in roles that don't interest me. I'm also told that it would be easier to gain a paid role than a volunteer role at the organisation, but none suitable for me are advertised. Why are organisations averse to accepting volunteers?

@P12

Hi P12,

In response to your question about volunteer appointments, I would suggest that the organisations with which you are offering service as a volunteer are not averse to appointing volunteers, but are unable to do so. I believe that there are a number of reasons that it is difficult to be appointed to volunteer roles in many organisations, companies and businesses:

• Insurance and liability – while there is limited con-tractability by which the volunteer is bound to the organisation, the organisation is bound to provide training, possibly suitable clothing, insurance cover for accidents or incidents, were the company ever to be found to be negligent (remember legal 'minefield'). These base costs are incurred whether the volunteer is present or not.

• The engagement of volunteers complicates workload planning and analysis and is more time consuming.

• The volunteer is not bound by time-frames for work in the way that a regular employee is.

• There may be legal restrictions to engaging a volunteer, the criteria for which most organisations, companies and businesses would not meet.

• Employee organisations, unions, would throw a big wobbly if a person were to be engaged on a volunteer basis, to perform a role that would normally be undertaken by a paid employee. Such an arrangement would undermine all the benefits that presently accrue to employees in paid positions.

On the other hand:

• Organisations such as State Emergency Service (SES), Rural & Country Fire Brigade, St John Ambulance, and other similar volunteer service providers such as church based organisations, are normally covered under legislation for provision of the amenities for volunteer service (clothing, training, insurance coverage, etc) whereas most regular businesses would not be covered under that legislated criteria.

  I believe those are some of the reasons that it has been suggested that you may have a better chance of securing a paid part time or casual position.

For the reasons above, I believe that your best chance of obtaining a volunteer position is to apply for membership of a volunteer organisation. I have been a member of the S.E.S. Most people joining that, and other similar organisations, are most often interested in the outside/outdoors activities, like scaling cliff faces to rescue people, helping with the practical needs of people after severe climatic events, fighting fires in bush and residential locations, clean-up after storms and cyclones.

Regular training is provided with weekday and weekend training programs etc, that add to the appeal. All these activities require administrative and stores support (equipment, clothing orders, reciept records & distribution, writing up events and training material and records), for which there is not generally the same enthusiasm.

In emergencies, bases of operation are set up in which there is the need for people trained in radio operation, plotting the progress of events on maps, maintaining communications with people inside the operations area and outside, etc - training is provided for all these roles as well. If some of these roles appeal to you and that's the type of work that you are seeking, I would suggest looking at those organisations

Positions in organisations like these also allow a person, who is returning to the workforce, the opportunity to gauge their own performance, without the pressures that exist in a paid position. Any 'pressure' is normally self-generated, in line with commitment, which I think is better and more stabilising than external pressure.

While there is a certain commitment required, the conditions are reasonably flexible. The experience will be an asset to you should you ever wish to apply for a paid, part-time, casual or full-time position. And there is a sense of service to the community whether in training or in response to a call-out.

These types of positions also carry a social aspect and there is a high level of interpersonal support and camaraderie that is often not found in other organisations and businesses. Often, there is an acceptance of people experiencing difficulties or who have any form of disability. The very fact that a person wishes to contribute is the reason for that acceptance. Obviously, I can't speak for all groups, however, that is what I have observed in the unit that I was attached to and when we were on joint training exercises with other units.

Hoping that this information helps you, P12, in finding the type of work that you are seeking.

With Best Wishes

HenryX