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To trust or not to trust

To trust or not to trust

People....can be the biggest challenge of all of our problems we face in life.

Do you trust people straight after meeting them or a short few meet ups with them. Do you think "this guy/lady is really nice" then automatically trust them only to find out later down the track that they are toxic to your life and you have the ordeal of pushing them out of your life? Then you dont learn from that, the same process remains time and time again.

At 62yo I am still that way inclined. This makes me really vulnerable to hurt. I've observed other people in my life do otherwise. Some trust nobody, some only their spouse, some only after a long period of time. So what is the issue here? Why would anyone trust someone immediately and regardless of getting hurt every time, continue to remain that way. I can only guess. Maybe you have an answer?

My guess is twofold. Character and lack of wisdom.

Having a mental illness often means that we lack certain abilities that are commonly normal. We might also possess other abilities not in the common spectrum. For example, many with mental illness have unique abilities like- painting, entertainment, adventurers, mathematics and so forth. But we can also be absent with what I call "street wisdom". An inability to be aware of some threats to our well being. We might also have memory loss from our illness and/or medication/trauma.

IMO lack of this street wisdom means I am not able to solidify my techniques in meeting friends. I cant implement an attitude of "dont trust him yet, wait until I KNOW he is trustworthy"...which is the more common thing to do, the safer way. Another example could be that our behaviour is such that people at a social event think, due to our actions, think we are attracted to them when we are just being friendly, or maybe we put foot in mouth a lot which is common for some of us. So what can we do about this trustworthy issue or any issue that we are deficient of?

  • Keep new friends at a time distance. Reduce our contact with new friends so we can assess that friendship better with time.
  • Subtley ask friends about that person. Get to know them through a third person.
  • Communicate with a few probing questions
  • Realise that this new friend is just a part of your life and not throw yourself into new friendships

With foot in mouth disease contemplate the following

  • you dont have to answer someone straight away, you can pause to think. If they ask you to answer say "yes, I'm thinking about an answer. Dont feel that you have to answer if you dont have one
  • Apologise immediately and explain why you said what you said. If ther eis still objection then say "I made a mistake, do you make mistakes"?
  • Think before a social event about the company you will be with. "I will limit my time with Bill as Bill tries to dominate me and makes me uncomfortable".

That is just two examples. The message here is strong. That is to accept yourself for being how you are at the same time try to make alterations in your life with planning and owning up to your flaws. If that is not accepted by some then the better way to combat that attitude is to confront- put it back on them for not being tolerant nor understanding.

Far better to do that than locking ourselves in our room while the aggressive dont give their actions/words a second thought. This is better also because we equalise the attacks on us. It isnt easy but over time I've been on the lookout for those that criticise me for who I am.

So, we might have a deficiency in our make up that makes us vulnerable. That isnt our fault. We have to try to learn ways of countering that within ourselves but not expecting too much of ourselves. This is the best we can do along with therapy to assist us on our development of our character that really is set in stone. In the meantime draw a line as to criticism. If such is fair and well delivered fine, if it is unacceptable and has the potential to upset your daily health then counter it with equal force.

That's standing up for yourself. That's countering our vulnerability. That's our way of surviving in society and you would be doing yourself some favours.

WK

15 replies

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In response to: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

It is wonderful discussion of the issues @Whiteknight

I tend to be the trusting type.

As an adult I decided it was a more positive approach than being suspicious or cynical, but the getting hurt again and again wears thin.

I am very slow at coming up with good responses, but less naive.

I also am older and tougher now and also believe in balancing out some of the social forces amongst more aggressive individuals.

I have found that few like to own up to their stuff.

Sometimes it is a question of finding like minded people where there is less chance of conflict ...

but people being people ... some conflict does tend to raise its ugly head ....

In response to: Re: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

Nice thread, it totally depends on you if you feel lke trusting then and only then trust otherwise don't. Because trust has to be earned we can't trust anyone we meet.

In response to: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

Hi @Appleblossom
Re: "I have found that few like to own up to their stuff.". I find that also. Gone are the days when people owned their errors. I dont know why that is.
I'm also more aware being older.

@adamthiel
My problem is that I cant help but trust people well before I should. Its beyond my control to change that mindset. I've tried, hence other strategies to implement to make it possible.

Thanks for replying
WK

In response to: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

Hi @Whiteknight
I find it extremely hard to trust my family especially my mum. I don't trust her one bit.
Friends - mm not sure. I think I'm really scared of getting too close for then been rejected or abandoned. I have one or two close friends I do trust but that's it.

In response to: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

Especially @Whiteknight when someone hurts you so much - how can you ever trust them agsin.

In response to: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

Hi @BlueBay
Re : "Jun 2
Especially @Whiteknight when someone hurts you so much - how can you ever trust them agsin". I've struggled with this also. Family doing actions of revenge or poor behaviour. But I'm a forgiving person and overall I'm glad i am. Except for my mother and her favourites in our family.

So there is a line that shouldnt be crossed, no matter who they are.
WK

In response to: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

Hi @Whiteknight
Re yesterday's post. I'm sorry if I came across angry. I was not coping last night and was lashing out and crying. It was a bad night.
I'm still really angry at my mum and don't know if I can ever forgive her for how she treated me.
I'm normally a forgiving person but there are some people who don't deserve forgiveness. Even the 3 guys that sexually sbused my as a 9 yr old - they don't deserve forgiveness.
You're right there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.
I will never forget what those disgusting guys did to me snd I'll never forget what my mum said to me when I told her snd how she is treating me.

In response to: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

Hi @BlueBay
Hey, thats fine. I understand as much as someone should when they havent experienced anything like what you endured.

What happened to you wasnt your fault. You were an innocent child, pure in mind, vulnerable in spirit and wonderful as any child is. Those robbers of your innocence were evil.

You have a right to exercise you judgement on others with their actions, verbal abuse and inconsideration.

My threads are generally adaptive meaning not specific. So they might not suit every occasion.

But you are correct. You do not need to forgive. Remember my fortress of survival thtead written here in this forum, you can push people out of your life that dont provide you love care and empathy.
WK

In response to: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

Thankyou my friend @Whiteknight. At the moment I'm struggling with a few things that happened in my childhood. It's so traumatic to have to relive it. But I'm slowly hopefully getting there. And eith the help of this forum the members like you.
Hope you have a nice day. Any plans?
BB xxx

In response to: Re: To trust or not to trust

Re: To trust or not to trust

That's ok @BlueBay

Well, after we sell our house we are going to build another house in West Victoria. It's a stepping stone from one acre to a small town block to prepare for retirement, less maintenance etc. So we have decided to live in our caravan for up to 6 months waiting for our house to be built. That means making that tiny van more livable with a larger bed which I did yesterday and fixing the water tank which I just finished now. Once we have settled into our new home we will build another larger caravan retro style. So I've been busy the last 6 months planning that, designing it etc, based on the mistakes of this van. I'm also looking into lightweight materials. Tinking is my passion, lost without it. I'd be dwelling all day on issues.

Forums have a definate place in mental illness recovery. Psychs have appointments every 6 weeks or so and for only one hour which is necessary but isnt very comforting, that time in between. GP's are great but are limited in time. Forums like this one is 24/7 and you can get comfort in a short space of time. Peer groups like this helps because we effectively brainstorm each other. I'm a great believer in the odd "spark" that arrives in our life and when it comes it could be in the form of a comment, a word, a list of posts, it hits you and you realise why things are the way they are.

I've had a few sparks. A therapist once said to me "when are you going to stop saving the world". Well that was 30 years ago and yes, I'm still trying to save the world however thats in my make up. But with those words came perspective. I changed my level of over commitment to make it more "reasonable" and thus it resulted in me concentrating on other lifes activities. That balance is there now. So the spark came and I needed to be told that I was trying to make changes in my world that would never come to be. That period was a result of a political situation whereby I was a by-laws/dog ranger and a local politician got out of parking fines I issued to him by ringing up my bosses at the council. I was ordered to not issue fines to him anymore. There I was, years in the RAAF, prison officer, private investigator etc and never corrupted and they expected me to obey such illegal orders. I refused and kept issuing fines but not actively, only if I happened to see him parked in disabled zones etc. I had a severe pain in my chest and was falsely diagnosed with heart attack (31yo). I gave up smoking and 3 months later was told it wasnt a heart attack but a panic attack lol. It help me give up smoking though!!. That was 1988. I then found in 2003 I had ADHD and bipolar 1. That was a wrong diagnosis and for 6 years took the wrong medication. Finally 2009 got a session with two psychs that diagnosed me with anxiety, depression, bipolar 2 and dysthymia. Many of my issues stemed from my mother's undiagnosed illness and an incident in our swimming pool at 12yo when my brother nearly drowned.

I'm telling you all this because although I wouldnt compare my ordeals with yours Bluebay, I understand the ramifications of a child in trauma. As a victim, your options are limited. Metaphors can help a little so lets see if you can benefit from one?

THE COPING BUCKET

We humans are all 10 litre steel buckets. A good trauma free childhood would see a child grow up with their bucket intact and empty of water, shiny and round. During their life when hurt comes their bucket fills up say half way then over time empties again. When grief comes it quickly overflows then slowly as recovery comes it empties again.

With you Bluebay, at a young age evil came along and kicked your steel bucket and put a large dent into its side. It can no longer carry 10 litres of water. It can only carry 2 litres of water. Hurt comes along in trying to cope with trauma, the memories and it very quickly overlfows. Sometimes your now small bucket will stop overflowing as some good times come but the water level remains just a little from the top...it never empties. Grief comes, tears and sadness and it doesnt take much, maybe a cup of water to overflow your coping bucket. Psychs work on you and they lower the level of that bucket by a cup here and there, forums, friends, family all try in their only way they can but their effort is only half a cup now and then.

There is no way anyone can panel beat your bucket to be fully formed and capable of carrying 10 litres again. Yours is dented forever. So what can you do about this? Firstly no one and I mean no one can repair that bucket to new but they can, with their love and understanding add an extra peice of steel on top so it carries just a few cups of water extra which can help you cope a little better. You also can add a little extra on top with things like positivity and channelling your fears into productive activities like hobbies, sport and passions.

Now imagine if someone came along with super powers? This lady is angry, determined and resolute. She walks by and forces her foot into the bucket and the result is the bucket although still dented can now carry 5 litres of water. Immediately there is a change in life. That angry person is YOU, having finally accepted that you are powerless to heal your history and trauma. Acceptance, that you cant change the past, cannot remove the memories. That event might never happen. That's dependent on many things like your capability of acceptance, the level of trauma and so on.

At all times in your bucket you have a few rocks inside your bucket that are toxic people that are not helping you. These rocks take up space that could be water, to help you cope. Removing the rocks is the only remedy to enabling you to eventually reach your goal of semi repairing your damaged bucket.

I hope that helps. You might need to read that a few times. If you like that concept you can purchase a steel bucket ($7 I bought one 2 days ago at a market), put a small dent in it you can see and fill it with dirt and plant flowers in it and everytime you look at it you will remind yourself of that ultimate goal of peace, calm, love and....a slightly dented bucket rather than a fully damaged one....

🙂

WK

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