Torn between anger and guilt - Living with my brother

Hi @Fishbowl as a person with bp1 and schizoaffective disorder who is also a carer the first words that came out of my mouth whilst I was reading your story was 'WOW!' ... and not in a good way. I feel for you I really do .... I could make this complicated but I am not going to ... you are now a married woman who would be working and starting her own life. Truth is you have no obligations to your brother whatsoever. Particularly if he is not taking his medications properly and seeing his psychiatrist regularly etc.

As you said he is 31 years old it is time he grew up. I am sure your mother needs to look after her own needs now and not be worried constantly about her son. Sometimes people have to fall completely to learn how to help themselves. Unless he has some undiagnosed disorder other than bp which would make him act like a 4 year old (I have bp and I can assure you I don't act like a 4 year old!) he has to be left to look after himself.

If he is at home well it is time for him to move out. 31 is too old to be living at home. You would be doing him a favour in the long run. He has to take responsibility for himself, stop blaming other people for his situation and learn to work towards getting better.

Hi @Bunniekins,

I appreciate you taking the time to comment.

I agree with you, at least the rational part of my reasoning does. The dilemma arises when my emotions kick in.. I know he's a grown man and should act his age, but he was physically abused by my dad up until the age of 16-17. My mum was sort of dealing with her emotional trauma after she divorced my dad and that has resulted in my brother feeling deeply unloved and unwanted his entire life. He only knew of physical abuse growing up. That's what I mean by him acting as a 4yo, he's emotionally immature - he gets "jealous" about things a 4yo would.. if someone addresses him in a "mean" manner, even a complete stranger (people can be rude sometimes, we all have our bad days, nothing out of the ordinary), he comes home with almost teary eyes, with a defeated look on his face, resembling a 4yo that's just come home after being bullied at school..

I empathise with him - I have my own "daddy" issues which are nowhere near as complicated as my brother's as I had a relatively smooth childhood, and I still struggle sometimes.. But I'm working hard to overcome them and move on with my life. I'm seeing a psychologist, I talk to people, I have obviously started posting on forums haha..

But I feel for him. I know he feels all alone in this world, he even thinks his own mother and sister don't love him. It must be a gut wrenching feeling. And I HATE that he feels that way, and I just don't know what to do about that. My mum always says "if he was physically disabled, we wouldn't leave him out on the street" or "if he had severe mental retardation, we wouldn't leave him out on the street" - which is true, I agree but he is not physically disabled nor is he mentally retarded. He has a mental illness that is prefectly manageable if he takes his meds, sees his psychiatrists etc.. He is one of the smartest people I have ever met. He is so talented, he writes beautiful poetry, he paints the most amazing paintings and surely there are a lot of people out there that he can get along with. He doesn't have any friends, and by that I mean, he really does not have a single friend. So our little family is all he has. It's up to us to help him find his way and to help him step out of his comfort zone, but I believe he has to meet us half way. He's just so scared...

He is absolutely reluctant about moving out on his own. We have tried to make him move out "forcibly" - this was obviously done with the best of intentions - to make him stand on his own 2 feet. My mum had given him a couple months deadline to find a place for himself and move out. Needless to say, it didn't end well. He started drinking and he stopped taking his meds. Eventually, he was hospitalised and we didn't even find out until a week later. We couldn't find him for a whole week. So hence we would like to avoid this approach again.. And my mum is absolutely terrified something might happen to him. Luckily, he has never attempted to hurt himself - he's more often manic than depressed. When depression kicks in, he simply retreats into his own little world, avoids human contact, rides his bike for 50kms a day..

So HOW do we do this? He has no one else but us and we would like to motivate him to do better for himself because humans are not made to be and feel alone.. but he obviously has to be willing to meet us halfway...

@SleepyPanda, thank you for linking stories.

@Hubby21_Dad23 I've read you story and I find it incredibly similar to my brother's. Would be good to chat to you. I've tagged you in this as it is a continuation of my previous post and I thought it would really resonate with you.

Thanks so much, everyone

@Fishbowl Hi Fishbowl ... it is a tough one of where our help becomes enabling ... I have a son with schizophrenia and he has been violent in the past and when he does that or hurts himself I call in the police. That simple ... but your situation is different ... it is all emotional and your poor mother must feel guilt (as mothers always do...).

You are no good to your brother unless you and your mother protect yourselves emotionally I mean otherwise he will bleed you dry. He wont mean to but he will because of the pain he is in and then your small family unit will be of no use to anyone.Above all there has to be some rules in the family that is he goes to doctors appointments, psychiatrists, takes his medicine etc. if he doesn't and disappears again only to end up in hospital well that might be rock bottom for him. When he asks to come back you have to set up boundaries to protect yourselves.

If he doesn't agree well ... it is his choice ... he does not have as you said a intellectual disability or a physical one it is a mental illness which can be managed.

This is my own opinion ...

Hi @Fishbowl

Your brother is lucky to have a caring sister like you and a loving, long suffering mother. I do agree with @Bunniekins though, after all this time of supporting him and he refuses to help himself adequately - it's time to ask him to move out "for his own good" and for yourself and mothers good.

I myself suffered horrific childhood abuse....I moved out and have been self sufficient since 18 yrs old. And I had complex mental health issues due to physical, sexual and psychological abuse. My life was attempted many times and this was covered up. Justice was never sought or gained. I was also an alcoholic from the age of 14......but still stood on my own two feet and worked it out. Not easy but I learned to cope. Haven't drank in many, many years. It took awhile, and I still work on myself but am today leading a fulfilling, loving, and independent life with a beautiful husband....although life is never easy. Life isn't.

I understand your concern for your brother, but reading from your post he acts like a four year old because "he has never had to face the world on his own and stand on his own two feet". This has crippled his maturity and mental strength/growth. This is why he is so immature. He has become so afraid by hiding where he is constantly looked after, it's crippling his emotional, confidence and mental growth. This will never lead to happiness for him, standing on his own two feet is the only way for a chance at that. He will always be dependent if the apron strings are not cut. This is not good for him.

I do understand when we love someone and when they are mentally vulnerable we want to protect, but that can sometimes backfire and enable that illness to deteriorate. If we protect and do everyone for them they will never mature and their mental health will continue to deteriorate. I have experienced this first hand with my daughter, so I do speak from lived experience.

If your brother chooses to drink etc when asked to moved he needs to face the consequences of those choices. Otherwise his emotional manipulation will continue. He knows what to do to prevent what he doesn't not want to do and when this works it will feed his illness and lack of maturity. He won't change....nothing will change no matter what you do or the mental health team until he has too by standing on his own two feet. It's not entirely the mental health teams or anyone's else's responsibility - sufferers need to work on and help themselves too for healing or to at least improve having a better quality of life. Your brother is 30. Tough love is called for.

There is mental illness quite widely genetically throughout my family. I suffer bi-polar which can flare under stress but with coping abilities I manage more than well. My brother paranoid schizophrenia. I am probably more stronger than most - definitely more independent because I have always been independent.

My husband and I struggled with our daughter similarly to the difficulties you face with your brother. Apart from the fact she intially could become agressive - She would not clean up after herself, or help in the house. She would not pay rent and was using us. She was emotionally manipulative to get her own way. She was totally dependent on us and would not help herself. Does your brother help around the house at all? This was half the problem to why our daughter was not improving. We did too much for her. She is now 21. We did ask her to move out and she did recently, being out of home for 2 months now. She is on a low wage and in debt, but it could not go on the way it was. She has now taken on two jobs out of neccesity and she feels better for it and more stable/stronger mentally. Working and responsibility has been good for her and her confidence. Now when we depart we know she will be okay. What will your brother do when your mum can no longer fend for him? He will look to you if he does not learn to look after himself which could put a strain and you and your marriage.

The improvement in her is extraordinary. Her mental illness improved and stablished. She now is nearly "normal" in this respect, meaning her mood swings have stabilised. She respects us for the first time in many years and appreciates us and "life" far more. She takes pride in things more etc. She is in debt so is taking on more hours and she found a second job. Her life is far from easy. We help her in ways but not where she relies on us too much. If we loan her money for car repairs she has to pay it back weekly. But she knows we are there for her and love her. This tough love approach worked for us - she put us through hell for 6 years prior.

If we had continued the way we were the stress would of taken its toll on us - our health has already suffered. She would not of improved in maturity, mentally or as a person. She has a way to go but is getting there.

I also meant to mention that she had previously attempted suicide 3 times - latest attempt was near fatal last year in July. We looked after her night and day then but it was not enough or helping. She then started to self medicate with drugs. She was a train wreck - she has come along way since.

We started to put our foot down at the beginning of this year. If she drank or took drugs, as your brother did, we would stick to our guns that she needed to still move out. We would not allow it in the house. She is now drug free and drinks moderately. And we have never been as close. Tough love can incorporate risks, but the way my daughter is and your brother is - tough love is called for or they will never change and have no life as they continue to deteriorate by not helping themselves. Our daughter would of always needed others to survive if we had not of taken this step - no life for her.

You have nothing to feel guilty about - you have done what you can, it is now up to your brother to make a life for himself as we all have to. Many People with mental illness live alone and do so. We all have to face the world to find ourselves, our strengths and to grow mentally and emotionally. "And we who love them deserve a life too." I hope this has helped. All the best to you