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when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

SunnyCasual Contributor11 Jan 2015, 12:50 pm AEDT

when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Hi Everyone,

Im new to this forum but Im not new to mental illness.

My brother was diagonised nearly 17 years ago, as a 19 year old with Bi-polar, he is 36 this year. Im two years older than him and its been a tough, heart wrenching time for me and our parents.He now has been re diagonised with bi-polar and schizoaffective disorder.

His past 17 years has been an extreme rollercoster of near death experiences, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, hospitalisation in locked wards for upto 5 months at a time. servere depressive lows, to extreme mania,pychosis, being in trouble with the law, you name it, its happened and has lead me here to finally say I need some advice and Im at a crossroads.

its only been the last 2 years that when he goes into pychosis that he has become threatening to our family, Ive never felt unsafe around him until now. He is currently in locked ward, going into his 3rd month right now. They give him grounds access and he goes missing then they put an order on him and police find him and take him back.

Anyway, my parents were away for a couple of days and he left 2 messages on their anwsering machine, it was spine chilling, rage and anger in his voice threatening to end their lives, then a last message later that day of him crying uncontrollably.. Our family have been so supportive of him and done everything that we can and the last 2 years we have been intensively working with him to help stay on the straight and narrow.

what do we do in this situation, I have a young family, Mum is heart broken, as when he went awol from locked ward on new years eve, he broke into my parents car, damaging it to steal the car battery. He has also put a whole load of dads tools in a wheelbarrow but for some reason did not take it ( think he would try hock this) but hes never stolen from us or been threatning to us until now and the last time he was seriously ill..

Do I need to explain to him while he is still ill that we need to stay away, or will that make him worse knowing that we cant support him, as there are moments when he is kind of together... it does my head in as to what the right thing to do is...

Mum feels like we will be on the news one day as he would have killed one of us.. its so messed up and as i write this I feel stupid as the commonsense thing would be to stay away. What Im hoping is, as you also live this, you will understand my crossroad and perhaps have been in this situation or simular.

The thing that gets me through the tough times is" you can not rationalise mental illness" but as soon as you do try to rationalise is when you get into a knot, especailly when it challenges your beliefs and morals

It gets to a point that its not ok that they did terrible things while they were mentally ill...and so what if they are mentally ill,they can not/ should not get away with things.

It's easy for people to say just get him out of your life, he's a lost cause!(i tend to agree but live in ever lasting hope he will be ok oneday as I know how lovely he can be when he is well. I hold onto that)

I struggle with the fact that he is unwell and you would not walk away from someone who was phyically unwell in hospital.. I know that mental illness is an adpative challenge, there is not one solution or remedy that will solve the situation but you can live in hope that oneday they will have a happy fulfilling life... thats all I want for him and my parents.

Any advice when loved ones become threatening would be great as its scary because its real to them!

thank you, Im so grateful that you are here 🙂

7 replies

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In response to: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

CherryBombSenior Contributor11 Jan 2015, 7:37 pm AEDT

Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Welcome to the Forums @Sunny (I love your profile name)

You sound like very compassioate person. It's great that you can see beyond your brother's illness and see him through his behaviour. That said, while your brother is quite unwell, threats and abuse are never ok. It's important to keep you, your family and your brother safe.

This doesn't mean that you have to cut off all ties with him, but place firm boundaries around specific behaviours. For example, if he is yelling and aggressive, disengae, stop communication, and remove yourself (or him) from the situation. If the behaviour continues, don't hesitiate to contact emergency services. But if he calm and non threatening, spend time with him. You may want to do this in a public place depending on the level of safety that you feel you need and are comfortable with.

You may find this post started by @maddison about how to manage abuse helpful. Also, @Kiera80 may be able to provide some advice, they have cared for a sibling who had abusive behaviours. You can read more about that here. Similarly, in this post @Jacob101 , talks about their partner who has had aggressive behaviour. You may find reading and contributing to those threads useful. Perhaps @maddison @Kiera80 and @Jacob101 can provide some advice?

Also, have you and your family got supports? Caring for some with MI can be extremely stressful, so it might be helpful to connect with a counsellor or an agency, such as ARAFMI, that provides support to carers.

Stay safe,

In response to: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

maddisonSenior Contributor12 Jan 2015, 2:12 pm AEDT

Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Hi @Sunny,

I'm Maddison.
I think it is courageous that you have written on here. I cannot give you any advice except i agree with what @CherryBomb has written. I know the feelings you express of extreme oppression and helplessness, and it is no ones' fault. "hang in there!" I am new here too. Sometimes, it is scary, and then I get angry that I am scared. Hope you are ok, i like ur name too!

In response to: Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

LouiseSenior Contributor12 Jan 2015, 6:33 pm AEDT

Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Hi Sunny

Sometimes, if you are feeling unsafe/ very confused around your brother, it might be a good idea to remove yourself from the situation. I would say the same thing to your parents. That doesn't mean you are giving up on him forever. My sister has also had severe MI for 18 years, and is also very threatening. I thought I could handle it, even though I felt very unsafe. Unexpectedly, I ended up lashing out at her physically, which was traumatic. Since then I refuse to visit her or have her in my home, though I am open to meeting on neutral territory.It is much better to avoid a violent incident if possible. My parents are getting elderly too and I don't think they should have to put up with her outbursts and intimidation. Unfortunately this means she has become very isolated but I don't see a way around this.

In response to: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Jacob101Senior Contributor12 Jan 2015, 9:44 pm AEDT

Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Oh sunny ... What hell you are all going through. I just left my ex who is bipolar / schitzoaffective because of violence. We had been together for 9 years and he same age as your brother. I never felt threatened until about 6 months ago and this it seems was the effects synthetic cannabis use has on his moods. He tried to choke me in October, then I slept in locked room until he left the country. When he returned 5 weeks later he had dried out so I let him back in the house but 2 weeks later I found cannabis so I moved out immediately. Since then I have returned to the house and he has moved into another accommodation. I keep in touch, buy him food etc but I only visit him when he sounds ok and I always keep a door open etc to make a get away if need be. I won't let him in the car anymore as he threatens me when I'm driving. Towards the end of living together I would keep all doors open so I could run out of house. I would sleep fully clothed with wallet, keys and phone ready to run. Such was uncertainty of what he would do. Every second day I get threatening texts and phone calls saying I will find out the depths of how evil he is. Then he apologizes etc. But then it starts again. Every time I feel like giving in and letting him back I remember him choking me. So what can you do? Firstly stay safe, don't take a risk. Its not worth it. Secondly, by all means stay in contact but do this in controlled environment ... For me this is meeting him when he calm and I always have an escape plan (ie not in closed room etc). Sometimes this means you might need to visit him with someone else. Thirdly you need to get the right treatment etc for him. I know this difficult and I am trying to get my ex into hospital but that won't be easy. Your brothers experience seems extreme and his diagnosis or meds may need changing. Is he also taking illicit drugs? That may explain the extreme behavior and aggressive nature. Fourthly what's his accommodation situation out of hospital? I have the luxury of my ex being able to be in another place but if I did not and he would be potentially homeless I do not know what I would do. But you need to plan ahead for this. Finally, it's a process of trying to get across that the behavior is unacceptable (cause and effect). For my ex it's me telling him that the illicit drugs has lead to this. I know it is all very difficult, but you need to tell his health care team of his behavior and threats etc and your fears for his safety. It is not your problem to solve entirely, it should be a team approach. I am happy to chat and post more if that would help you. Hang in there. Jacob

In response to: Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Kiera80Senior Contributor14 Jan 2015, 9:29 am AEDT

Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

I'm glad you found your way to the forum here Sunny . In my experience thus far there are so many lovely people here who will do everything they can to offer you advice and help with what you are going through.

The level of abuse and threats you and your family are experiencing is quite extreme.

I am two years older than my sibling and have had many struggles with things being out of control and threats of violence. Self harm has also been in my siblings history. I have been through so many emotions on the mental illness roller coaster with my sibling and still not quite out of the woods yet, even though at the moment we still live together. At least my sibling is on medication that seems to be helping even things out so in that way we are quite fortunate that we found the right help, even though that took a long time and a huge blow up at hospital staff from me.

Even today, when my sibling is off in mental illness land as I like to call it, I need to shut down which means stopping communication and removing myself from the same space. Sometimes I need to just grab the car keys and disappear for a while.

Do you have someone you can contact at short notice that is looking after your brother? If he is out in the big wide world does he need to check in with someone on a regular basis? I feel that it can be important and of some help to keep communication lines open with people that are caring for your brother. Information between them and you can be vital.

Is anyone in your family a carer for your brother? Carers have certain rights that allow them to have a say in what happens to their family member and should also be informed as to what treatment they are getting. At the moment it sounds like the care for him is up and down like a yo yo. Is that the feeling you get too? Don't be afraid to approach the doctors at the hospital and let them know what your brother has said and threatened. I bet they don't know what's going on when he isn't under a watchful eye.

You might like to think of some extra security measures for your parents and your family. CherryBomb also mentioned meeting up in a public place which I think is a great idea although you still may need to be on guard. Make sure both your parents and your own house and garages are secure so he cannot gain entry. If he comes to the house keep the door locked and talk to him through a security door if you have one. If he becomes violent ask him to leave. If he doesn't leave then he is trespassing and you have every right to call the police.

If you think he might be capable of real violence where he may hurt one of you then consider also installing an alarm system if you think he may try to break in. It also won't hurt to visit your local police station and let them know what's going on, just in case you need them in a hurry. From my experience the police have been fantastic when I have needed to call them. Won't hurt to also have the number of the CAT team in your speed dial for emergencies. Ask the police what measures you could take to keep you as safe as possible. Always better to be prepared than not. Your safety and that of your parents must always be paramount.

Have you engaged a counseller for yourself yet? If you can, find one who is experienced in dealing with the mental illness your brother has. I'm sure a counsellor could be of great help to you. If you get your own mental health plan done at your gp you can get access to some free counselling which is government sponsored. When I was seeing a counsellor they helped me try to understand what was going on from my siblings perspective which is a view that you can't understand on your own. It doesn't make things any easier but it helps put some of the puzzle together and can even help you recognise what to say and how to act prior to things getting too out of hand. There are certain things you should and should not say to someone who has a mental illness. You can't take the softly softly approach but neither can you come out and call them crazy. Sometimes even your body language can set off a person with a mental illness without you even knowing what you've done wrong. I would encourage you to arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can. Learning when to be compassionate, when to put your foot down, when to be hyper vigilant etc etc. will help you when your brother is present.

In response to: Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Kiera80Senior Contributor14 Jan 2015, 9:51 am AEDT

Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

@Sunny

Just thought of something else that may be of use to you.

When I was going through the really scary times with my sibling I started keeping a diary of every bit of crazy and threatening behaviour towards me. I made sure it was dated and included as many details as I could.

I bring this up because we ended up going to court and my sibling had a type of restraining order put in place. More like a good behaviour thing - but in a legal way. The police initiated this after I had to call them one day when my sibling threatened to come after me with an axe.

The diary I was keeping I was able to use in court, along with notes on when we had police visits and when my sibling was admitted to the psych ward.

For me it was a kind of safety net. Maybe something like that could help you down the track too if you need to fall back on some proof of what's been going on.

The police quite regularly get dragged into attenting domestic situations where there has been trouble due to a person with a mental illness so they tend to be quite good in backing you up all the way if you need the extra help. If you do have police in attendance in any situation, write that in your diary and get the officers name and rank too.

In response to: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Alessandra1992Senior Contributor16 Jan 2015, 6:49 pm AEDT

Re: when they become threatening - bipolar and schizoaffective disorder

Hi @Sunny, I agree with all of the posts regarding keeping yourself and your sibling safe..Meeting in neutral space is essential and talking to his discharge team and or Director of Nursing/Matron whoever discharges him has a duty of care that he is well enough to be discharged.
Has he got outreach via the hospital and/or referral into a community mental health service? It can be really challenging when a person has mental health and illicit drug issues, but it is pretty common so he is not only person to take drugs and have bad reaction to them..
What are the good things you love about your brother because I think keeping a diary of his unique qualities is also important because it will keep you motivated to continue the relationship..he may have a lovely smile, or a cheeky sense of humour or a way with words that you admire.. When he is in a good headspace it's very healing to know your family loves your grin, or your sense if style..
He may be living rough, and he may be very threatening.. So the ideas listed above are excellent about keeping you all safe..perhaps one day he might join a peer support group and discover that he has skills and knowledge that may help others through a similar journey..you never know..

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