TW: voluntary assisted dying vs suicide

Hey there @sadboyhours ,

Welcome (again?) to the forums.

This is quite a controversial one. Let's see what the community has to say.

I do certainly agree there is a difference between suicidal distress and making a conscious choice.

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This is a difficult one I think. @sadboyhours.

At the moment I would take the VAD as I feel I have no hope of getting better. If going through what I’m going through now is going to keep happening then I’d be happy to take an easy way out.

Im not in suicidal distress. I really couldn’t be bothered to attempt to end it. I’m quite calm about dying though.

It would be a minefield to regulate and approve.

It's a question a lot of people really don't want to be out in the open, @sadboyhours , but very soon, I doubt they'll have any choice. The question has gone mainstream, as the Canadians have legalized euthanasia for so-called "mental illness" (or are in the process of doing so?). They are a prominant western government, so it's only a very short matter of time before other western democracies will need to acknowlege this dilemma and begin discussing it openly.

I feel it also gets very messy in framing it solely within terms of "euthanasia for mental illness", since being suicidal is very often not a symptom of mental illness at all - it is a very rational and fair conclusion, based upon the circumstances of one's life.

Right now, we have therapists (et al.) who proclaim to various suffering people that their problems are unsolvable and that they must "accept", "cope with", or some other identical-meaning euphamism, their awful quality of life. Then they dictate to said patients that they must never commit suicide, as suicide is a big no-no. So, in effect, such patients are condemned to long, pointless, anguished lives, which they do not personally want, while they wait at length for mother nature to come along and grant them parole in the form of respectable natural death, simply because society (via the therapist) has dictated that this must be their fate.

I sincerely cannot fathom how voluntary euthanasia isn't viewed as a better alternative.

But then again, I've never been able to figure out why some people believe life to be more desirable than death in the first place. It's always seemed to just be a case of conformity gone mad, from my perspective.

i agree @chibam most people don’t want to talk about death at all and mentally ill people are extra not allowed to talk about it. VAD seems to be extra taboo in some circles.

my mum recently passed and at first it seemed very peaceful, but the last 24-36 hours i wished i had talked to her about VAD. it was horrendous for me and my dad to see her that way and i can’t imagine it was pleasant for her either (she was basically unconscious for the last week of her life).

it has given me a bit of a different perspective. we often hear about people not wanting to let elderly family members go when they’re on life support; i think forcing cpr on a frail person is much more selfish than someone who’s constantly in and out of hospital and isn’t happy with their standard of living opting out of life.

interestingly, some jurisdictions specify that a person with a disability or medical condition who also has a mental illness shouldn’t be prevented from accessing VAD. here in tasmania, it says having a mental illness is not reason for VAD alone, but it also says a disability *could* be a reason. so if you’re disabled by mental illness, could you qualify??

im not sure, but it’s something i intend to follow up, because i do believe everyone should have a right to ‘opt out’.

Sure does sound messy @chibam ! Thanks for sharing!

Such a difficult topic, @sadboyhours. I'm left asking what our humanity has become. I had always regarded VAD for terminal illness to be wrong—slippery slope etc. However, over time I have come to realize that things are different for those inside a situation to those outside. I have come to realize that, for some, it is preferable. I accept their choice.

Well, now we're on the slippery slope and there is world-wide consideration of including what is referred to as 'mental illness', and which I refer to as an expression of the psychological abuse they (and often/usually, their lineage) have endured. Each abusive event distorts behaviour, sense of self, mood control, and caused immeasurable distress as the person they were becomes less so.

So easy for psychiatrists to simply inadequately treat a patient, then state that theirs was a 'difficult case', that there is no cure, that they did their best or that they don't know what causes these 'illnesses'—there's always VAD.

My ex-psychiatrist deliberately, systematically and sadistically ruined my life while experimenting on me and enriching himself, and I'm not the only one. Many lives have been lost, damaged or ruined on this path.

I speak for myself only in saying that this is deliberate, that it maintains the status quo, the established pecking order, and for those on the top, that's how they like it.

Would I avail myself of VAD? Possibly, but that would be at the hands of people who would do nothing to actually help the abused, who feign 'caring' (as long as they're alright). It just seems rather ghoulish. They wouldn't help me survive and prosper, but will help me die? For me, I think I'd rather suicide and hope I got it right.

Such an interesting topic. And I think a lot of people who suffer from a mental illness whilst in the deepest depths of it would probably opt for VAD.

But may I share a little of my story?

In my early 20s is the first time I started to battle with my mental health. As a result of childhood sexual abuse and sexual assault in my early 20s, I was diagnosed with major depression, BPD, PTSD and schizophrenia. I was in and out of hospital for years and made frequent attempts to commit suicide. I tried an array of different medications and ECT.

I had numerous psychiatric say to me that this would be my life. In and out of hospital and I would at some point be successful at committing suicide.

BUT… things did get better. I got better. I had a really good 10+ years. I held down a successful job, got promotions, traveled, got married, had my daughter. All medication and therapy free.

And yes, shit hit the fan again due to circumstances beyond my control. And my mental health is terrible again. But I share this to say that things can get better. There is hope. And we shouldn’t just right ourselves and others off because of mental health.

thankyou for sharing your stories @Historylover and @Bow

i had an interesting chat with a friend last night on this topic and they agreed that we would be better off if the mental health system treated us better.

however, in my opinion this is a bit of a pipe dream… having been involved in various state and federal projects, it seems like most of the cash is being put to trying to stop people in immediate crisis from ending their life. again, of course, this is a really good thing!! but for many adults, unless you can afford top of the line private health cover and out of pocket costs of psychiatry and psychology, the quality and availability of ongoing care is very poor and many of us are left to fend for ourselves.

so, the question for me then becomes should individuals have to continue suffering because of the inaction of government or incompetence of the treating team?

I could scrape together out of pocket expenses if they were prepared to undo the damage that has been inflicted on my life, @sadboyhours, instead of just taking my money and making matters worse. They have no intention of helping me with this mess of their 'profession's' making—as I said, it maintains status quo.