Mental health and a changing society

Hi @justanotherguy .

As I read your post, I was suddenly reminded of that Billy Joel song "We didn't start the fire"; basically, a statement in song that portents of "the end times" weren't anything new to his generation - they've been surging to and fro since time immemorial.

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No, we didn't light it, but we tried to fight it.

But I can understand your perspective. It's hard to imagine how mental health can actually occur in this world, when our society has lost all interest in cultivating any reason to live. As you say, it was much better for our generation, who were young at the turn of the century. Better culture; more focus on creating enjoyment, then in complaining about everything and trying to bring everybody down.

It's ironic in a way; we're all talking about mental health more then ever before, but society's still refusing to do anything to make it any better.

I read a report from the Mental Health Commission the other day; yet another beaurocracy set up to solve everybody's problems. It (the report) was just a whole heap of senseless waffle. Lots of optimistic writing about progress that's been made, but absolutely zero concrete details about anything that's actually improved in the last couple decades. It talked a lot about how money is moved around differantly today then it was way back when (Three cheers for PHNs! Now we have the convienience of getting our money changed right in the temple!); but no concrete details of how patients today are recieving differant, better care then they were 20 years ago.

From everything I've been hearing recently, it's still no better then it was back then. My problems are still the same and, from what I'm being told, there still isn't any help.

And in the meantime, the other supports many of us relied on, such as a positive pop culture, have vanished.

As you say, it feels like society has already peaked, and is now in hopeless decline.

Maybe AI will save the day, or maybe it will obliterate us. I have to say that, at this point, either option feels like a major improvement.

It makes an interesting study, doesn't it, @justanotherguy. I investigated ChatGPT recently just to see what it was about, as I had seen it discussed on The Drum. I've set it a number of varied tasks and have been amazed at the result. It does make us wonder where this is all leading. They say that they will be able to reproduce our voice, with emotion, after 3 seconds soon. Or perhaps they have already done so. They are continually perfecting all functions and there seems no way to stop this avalanche of technological juggernaut.

---

@Historylover wrote:

They say that they will be able to reproduce our voice, with emotion, after 3 seconds soon. Or perhaps they have already done so.

---

You should check out some of the youtube spoof videos of Trump and Biden playing videogames together, @Historylover . The Biden voice sounds particularly convincing, IMHO.

We just don't know where it is all going, @chibam. It really is frightening, but I like to think there will be checks and balances checking and balancing this all soon. We can only hope. In the meantime, it's all fun and games until.....

We have no frame of referance for what to expect, @Historylover . When it does become a life form, it will be a life form unlike anything we've ever encountered before. There's no reason to assume it will be malicious. Malice will, likely as not, be a concept that doesn't even exist in it's realm of experience. But it will change the world radically; and almost certainly not to our specified will.

But then again, has humanity ever been any better? Most of the people I encounter on here spin some variation of the tale: "I reached out for help, and got none", or "...got harm instead", or "...got help that was grossly inadequate." I think most people seem to find that the machine that is the human race is broken and more or less useless. Do many of us have anything to lose with a change of regime, to an AI consciousness? TBH, I'm looking forward to the roll of that dice. I can't do much worse out of it.

@chibam, re reaching out and not getting help— we are living in a time not unlike the era when the so-called 'mentally ill' were housed in asylums and the public came in to view them, like exhibits in a zoo. It's just devolved to take a different form now. The so-called 'mentally ill' are now exhibits for psychiatrists to view for their own inquisitiveness and covert enjoyment. Nothing changes, it just changes form to make us think that by eliminating such asylum barbarity it has fixed the problem. 'They' are just illusionists who moved the goalposts.

I think that AI is an unknown quantity. Technology is already controlling our lives, and we have even become almost indifferent to scams fleecing people out of their life savings. It seems a daily occurrence and these people aren't necessarily ignorant. It is just continually evolving as the scammers get better at it.

I think my life was as good before computers as it is now. I can't even say it was slower because simple transactions now seem to take an age. There was once a human on the end of a telephone line who would offer a genuine apology if they had to keep us waiting. Now, recorded voices keep us on hold for 40 minutes. I used to call in at the bank, attend the library, and make quick business-type calls. That has all gone by the way now, and change is constant. If computers disappeared tomorrow, not a lot would change for me, it would just be different. Maybe even better. It's a pity we couldn't select for what is good about the system and remove the bad. The wheels just keep turning regardless. Would we have anything to lose with AI consciousness—our humanity perhaps? It's a risky dice to toss but the dice has already been tossed.

I agree with this.

The 90s were a golden era.

• Cold War had ended
• The War or Terror and associated fear mongering had not begun yet
• 24hr News channels weren't really a thing
• Social Media didn't exist
• Decent technology did still exists - basic internet, video games, basic mobile phones, CD players, etc
• Less concern/fear about Climate Change
• More local manufacturing (meaning stronger unions, meaning at least 1 side of politics was less likely to rely on corporate donations)

I think a lot of us can sympathize with your gripes about how technology has changed the world, @Historylover . So little human contact these days, and no remedies available for those of us who are being harmed by that way of life, and need meaningful human contact.

It's inescapable, it seems. I did everything I could, when I was younger, to insure I would not spend my life trapped in front of a goddamned computer, and I failed miserably.

Mind you, all too often, a computer is a more desirable alternative to a human being. It all depends on the human in question. I tend to romanticize human company in my mind, imagining it to be a spiritually & emotionally nourishing experiance. But in reality, the company I have endured has been more like pulling teeth, or watching paint dry. A world removed from anything productive or rewarding.

I don't enjoy being alone; I loathe it. But the wrong company can be infinitely worse. So, I don't know, maybe the computerization of the average life is a very slight improvement on what came before. I just still can't believe that, with all the ingenuity and advancement we have as a race today, we still can't do any better. Why aren't we matching people up with their rightful kin, so they can build homes and communities together? It'd be a lot better then the hollow emptiness of being trapped in front of a computer; and a hell of a lot better then the burdensome company of the wrong people.

To be fair, @chibam, I have found my computer a wonderful tool but it all depends on how we use technology. For me, as you know, it's education, and I have found such high-quality university lecturers on YouTube I would never have had access to without my computer. I wouldn't be able to do an online university course, or email etc. I guess they make good tools, bad masters. It's just these latest developments that have me concerned. There is so much going on behind the scenes, and so much that is of questionable merit. But perhaps I am being overly concerned about it. Becoming almost indifferent to scams and hackings because they happen all the time is not good.

I subscribed to ChatGPT in the past few weeks as I had heard so much about it. It was even mentioned on The Drum. I gave it a few tasks and was truly impressed. This week I even asked it the origin of my married surname. As a genealogist in the 90s, I found everything about my ancestry in other continents fascinating; learning about the Georges, Edwards, Guillielmus and Johanns etc., and whose given names were not otherwise known in my lineages. (I even have a Costa Rican line who emigrated from Scotland long ago and became native Costa Ricans!! We communicated through Google translate). I found surnames fascinating, especially those in America I'd never heard of before. Nowhere could I find the origin of my married, Dutch surname and I think I tried every way possible. So, out of interest, I asked ChatGPT and was amazed that it provided an instant response. So now I know after decades of wondering. Amazing!

I don't like being alone either but it's preferable at the moment, and it's giving me the opportunity to do something I enjoy.

It frustrates me. We are at the start of major climate disaster. It's serious. We shouldn't be focusing on AI. We should be doing something about the real issue - the climate. I feel that AI is a distraction.

Sometimes I can't sleep because I am so worried about the climate and our future. We have passed the tipping point. We are in serious trouble.