Zero Supports and cracking

Hi and welcome to the forums @Sharona1 👋

I have dependent adult children with mental health issues, and one with substantial disabilities. Your situation sounds awful and you are in need of as much support as your son.

do you have a GP you can speak to about getting some real assistance around your situation ? Carers respite is available, but how to access this I don’t know. The ebbs and flows in my own situation give me opportunity for respite between dramas, so to speak.

Have you spoken with Carers Australia ?

(02) 6122 9900

There is also the Sane call line:

https://www.sane.org/counselling-support/sane-support-services

Here is another thread where you can find support amongst other carer-parents:

Parents Supporting Unwell Adult Children

I am so glad you found us here. You are not alone.

🌷 F&H

I feel like your title right now. Different reasons. Almost opposite really. You got me at a weird time. I've had less attacks lately but am just getting over a ..... weird one. I'm an AVPD person. I had been dealing with it, not knowing what it was and only found the diagnosis, maybe about a year ago.

I'm kind of impressed at acquiring the diagnosis. It's so trait-based that it's hard to separate from satellite issues. Your son sounds not only textbook but a lot like me (especially when in the deeper throws of it). It's making me cry just a little bit to be able to make the connection. AVPD is a lonely way to be. Not so much because there's few of us but we're inherently challenged when it come to some of the most important things.

I'd say you're squarely onto it, when you speak of practical solutions. Most personality disorders are at least half environmental. In fact, one of my therapy armaments of choice is ACT. Because acceptance makes it easier to accept things and commitment makes it easier to accept things.

[internal reflection: I'm starting to feel like, recovery me, again. Yesterday I was, AVPD me. This time I've got a unusually nostalgic impression. This time, AVPD me, had some good points. Important points that I was, well actually, avoiding. This scares me a bit, because it suggests that, recovery me, is actually (or at least partially) leaning on "dismissive avoidance" (the ticking of the fearful-avoidant-timeboomboom"). Gee whiz, as soon as it stops it starts again (I'm just getting better at noticing it (and diffusion is the tricky part)]

I would love to endlessly list all my thoughts, advice, ideas and quandries, but I should also tend to some other things so I don't up getting the spirals. You found me at a weird time. I'm not sure if I have any answers (or at least ones that can quickly summarize and I'm the till end of an attack, so what do I know?) Glad we met. I'm getting shy now.

In order to actually give you something, and I'm not sure if this is a thing, but I've found that analytical work from psychs has helped me more than behavioral approaches have helped my behavior. I tend to fret around behavioral psychologists and keep feeling like they don't understand where the struggles are at.

Or maybe, a more general but applicable principle is, nervous cluster disorders need nervousness based solutions.

Hi @Sharona1

I am so sorry to read of your situation. I can sense the anguish and desperation in your post

I'm sorry I don't have much knowledge with Avpd. I do understand the unwillingness to see own problems & seek treatment, as you say your son does. I also understand the extreme need for support, as a carer.

My initial instinct is, as @Faith-and-Hope mentioned to involve your GP.

It does sound as though your situation has reach critical point, where counseling may no longer be effective & more stringent measures may need to be implemented.

I can relate to your feelings of frustration regarding feeling shuffled around from counselors without actually getting any tangible help.

If you feel like you are at that stage, where you are finding it extremely difficult to cope, and no amount of talking can adequately help at the moment, then perhaps talking to your GP may be able open some avenues where both you and your son can gain access to more effective strategies or treatment.

If you are like me & have trouble expressing the breadth of your circumstances in the moment, perhaps you could consider writing notes beforehand, or show your GP your post.

I don't know if any of this helps any. Maybe venting here on SANE, and knowing that you are not alone can help give you the strength you need for now💕

Thanks Maddison.

My GP knows the whole situation. She has since about 2008. She has tried a few things over the years, and has met my son F2F which not many people can say but that was a few years back. At this point, she seems to have finally given up.

He has a diagnosis of AvPd and noone really gets what that is. I think there is more than just this going on. But in the AvPd range, I'd say he is at the far extreme end. His mental health is extremely complicated. He also has 'health delusions' ( I use quote marks there because a mental health nurse and a doctor at Emergency, Sutherland Hospital came to that conclusion. He refuses any mental health support because he believes that any apparent issues are just a normal result or side effect of the REAL issues, which are physical. He has been following some US peoplle and has emenas a few times a day and eats a very limited diet. It has been years now. It is more complicated still but I will leave that there.He received a diagnosis of AvPd but the diagnosis mentioned anxiety and potential for sometype of psychosomatic illness but I can't remember the name.

Has has been to emergency and had crisis teams over the years but nothing ever comes of it except he gets angrier at me. I call, but when they eventually come to see him, it falls apart. Last time the mental health crisis team came, after being on the phone with me a lot, they simply never even called one to let me know what happened. Eventually after trying to contact them (no direct number) and not returning my calls, some person said we found nothing wrong with him at all.

Nothing at all. At that moment it's like being in the twilight zone. Nothing. Not even anxiety. No depression.

I had told them over and over that he will put on a show. You will think he is the most together person you ever met. This is AvPd. He will do anything to avoid negative judgement. Plus these delusions are delusions. I wasnt there but I have seen it so many times. He will explain in the most articulate way, dressed for the occasion, that he has some serious physical illness (negated in Sutherland Hospital and all medical tests) and any anxiety is not an illness but a normal human reaction to such awful (self diagnosed) illness. From what I can see, no one ever asks for any evidence of this or checks his full health records. They just accept what he says.

In real life, he is a total shut-in. He has clear consuming anxiety. He is delusional. He has serious AvPd. People talk about pyschodocial disability , well, here it is in all iys glory. How can professionals say there is nothing wrong when someone cant leave the house for years. Just that. Not even considering other behaviours. They dont see his inability to deal with light or sound. I told them he was hearing voices. He told me many times that he couldnt look at knives because of the voices. So, when he was cooking he would rip food. Did he say this to the crisis team? Of course not.

The other issue I face getting help is this overfocus on hum an rights. Totally out of place in situations like this. But they also say well if he doesnt want help, he doesnt have to have any help. Bye!!!! I'm sure this misuse of Human rights has saved the government so much money over time. And who can argue that people have a right to say no to help? People with mental illness are delusional, lost, dont accept they have mental illness. But in the end, what help are they even offered? Drugs. So many people with MH issues refuse drugs.

I have asked for and searched for som emore numanced help. I tell people what is happening and how bad it is (and you can believe me that I haven't said the bad here!). I have done Carers NSW, this counsellor , that counsellor but no one actually helps with what my family needs. They just try to stick a bandaid on or tell you to call the cops and when you do finally do that, and it solves nothing, they refer you back to your GP. I asked for a mental health socil worker. I though some one who gets this and can help me workout the systems . She is also doing work on ME. All good but it doesnt help. Where is the so-called best practice family counselling? Or maybe it's only for young kids.

I really cannot keep this up anymore.

I have tried everything in circles.

I'm getting too old and sick to continue.

Hi there, so unusual (as in never) to meet someone who hs any idea what avoidant personoality disorder is. My son is pretty extreme though. I think he has other things going on as well. He is really not functioning well at all. He is living with me but blames me for everything and seriously rteats me with disgust. He cannot be in the room at the same time as me. If I walk in, he covers his eyes, with a pillow or his hands. I have to spend most of my time in a small room to give him space. He doesn't keep things clean and hygenic. If i ever push him, he says he can't see the mess because of his terrible visual disease (no evidence of any). He is up all night so I hardly get any sleep. If I try to talk no matter how nicely about anything real he will 'attack' me verbally . he says my voice makes him physically ill. I have gradually found it more and more diffuclt to speak.He like things to be dark sna closes all the curtains all day. BUT he is very social in social media and has alot of people following him and praising him for his wise words. But that is NOT the person I live with. He hates me but chooses to live with me. Very strange.

Thing is he doesnt accept his diagnosis. So, he wont get help. So, it also leaves me stuck here in a very unhealthy environment.

This stuff is so hard to try to communicate.

Hi,

Yes, you have read me fairly well. I am not doing well. GP has given up after many years. I am losing my fight. I have kept working and talking on all responsibility etc etc for so long, told my story so many times. I dont need respite. Respite is come back to the same issue before you left. I need some support to work with us both or someone clever enough to work around the delusions. And someon who will listen to me and realise that the fact I say one thing and they see another when they meet him is in faqct a red flag!!! Something is wrong here.

Are ther social workers who listen and deal with the care and the person with mental illness , with expereince and understanding of systems, with knowledge of AvPd, delusions, etc?

Because I can't find anyone.

I won't need any counselling, trust me, if I can get help for him.

But at this point, yes, finally, I am really not coping. Really.

cheers

Sharona

I'm feeling more grounded now @Sharona1 . Sorry for such a strange response. I've been working my capacities + was on the tail end of a sleepless time and it took me into some strange mental territory.

Still equally excited to be able to engage with this scenario. The problem with the system equations when it comes to AVPD is it tends to get lumped into the "low-risk" category (but that fails to take into account how exponential the risks become at high levels, if you ask little ole' me). Additionally it's also regarded as hard to treat (or even get to treatment for that matter).

Having said that, so much of the problem involves wrestling with expectations. It can be demoralizing but it also is "what it is" in the arc of our historical awareness around "what is attachment?".

The human rights tangents make a world of sense to me. because our disease can be so invisible we tend to use constructs to paint pictures. It's also just dawning on me that one way to adapt to lack of relation is to relate to "society" on a "meta-social" level. Aaaaaaaaand the thing about that is, it's easy to then develop forms of "meta-social-attachment-"trappings"" (or that kind of thing). I hope I'm not projecting too much, but it feels like we're at least close to the same ball-park.

In fact, my analysis of late, has revolved around balancing the rights approach with the needs approach. Sometimes it is about duty bearing rights. Sometimes its about meeting needs via mutual aid. That's roughly where I'm at for now. Point is, I've similar obsessions.

Once again, kind of validating not being the only one for once. I've been working a bunch on recovery strategies but mainly just on what's been working and not so much for my own process. There's a general trend towards growing "psycho-social" approaches. This seems encouraging. It's useful for a lot of people and largely crucial when you're in the personality spectrums.

I occasionally rave about Ryan Liberty on youtube as well. He's a nervous-attachment type that tends to fall for avoidant types. As a result has kind of become an AVPD whisperer of sorts. Has a sweet sensitive approach. It's nice. I find him not only informative but oddly comforting.

Quick forum tip @Sharona1 …..

Click on your @ key and it will provide a list of recent users. Tap the name or names you want to respond to and those people receive an email with a link to your post to them …. makes it easier to know who is talking ti who was well 😏

it’s one of the things we learn from each other when we are new here.

Still reflecting on this. I get breaking up food with hands, because I'm always doing things the hard way for all sorts of different reasons. The talking knives is a bit of a curve-ball to me. If we're talking auditory voices, that would be unfamiliar territory to me. And I think maybe that would be on another list of symptoms (more eccentric cluster). However, if we're talking voices from an "energy" point of view, as in a form of what an esoteric would call "morphic resonance" or kinesiology, I actually can relate more directly. Using myself as a case study, I'm developing a bit of personal theory that our nervous cluster components can also make us "vibe sensitive".

Since I'm note comparing mode, I thought that felt relevant.

Also, yeah, you're getting the composed version of me right now. You should see me sometimes (or then again maybe it's for both of us that it doesn't go that way) And, I've also been leaning on para-socials, at least at this stage. Net-engagement can be helpful, but so can the "touching grass" phrase that's been getting out there (internet talk for "going outdoors in general"). I wonder if your son's heard that one yet.

Hmmm. Two things just occurred to me.

1. I would love to compare notes with your wise-worded son.

2. If such a suggestion came from you there's a high probability that it will have automatic and ridiculously heavy baggage instantly attached. (both from your notes and my own experience. It's the sad part of where attachment issues meet vulnerability).

Hmmmmmm. That's a tricky one. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.